To think tokophobia isn't a phobia but a normal reaction to the horror of childbirth

[TeenTitans]

And that the classification of it as a phobia is another symptom of society dismissing women's valid concerns as hysteria?

Even the most straight forward birth is still objectively awful. It's a large object being forced out of a small vagina. There are people who say they had a great birth but I highly doubt it would be up there with a romantic meal out, a good book or riveting film on anyones list of "fun things I'd like to be doing later".

Being afraid or repulsed by it seems very logical and classing women as mentally ill for voicing this isn't okaym

I was extremely scared of childbirth, fear of the unknown and exacerbated by my epilepsy. Anyway I go pregnant and I got the consultant to agree for an ELCS on medical grounds. All fine and dandy until the recovery. Oh god, bloody (quite literally) awful, tedious (stitches, lack of mobility etc), uncomfortable and ended up getting an infection.

So when I got pregnant with DS2 I opted for an induction, had a nice calm water birth which was fairly straight forward (luckily). Wouldn't say I enjoyed it per se or it empowered me but far better than a c-section, recovery was sooooo much better. And I realised that I already had a high pain threshold from my various medical procedures prior.

@TeenTitans - Even if it's okay, it's still objectively unpleasant isn't it?

There's a massive difference between something not being objectively pleasant and having a phobia. I don't find going to the dentist particularly pleasant but I still book regular appointments. Same with smear tests. They're both unpleasant but necessary.

Bertrand I've already had my kids and did have a cesarean for this reason, I just find it interesting regarding perspectives on it as a topic.

As a PP said, I recognise this type of thinking. In fact when I had PND I started a thread on here which said PND was not a thing because suicidal thoughts, crying all day and refusing to let anyone else touch my baby were completely rational and understandable in the circumstances.

I don’t think there is any comparison at all between a bit of nervous excitement (which is what I had before giving birth) and feelings of repulsion and debilitating dread.

For what it’s worth I genuinely loved giving birth. It hurt, yes, but not unbearably and I’d happily do it again. It’s the having PND with a newborn I’m terrified of so I’ll never do it again.

Regarding depression, there are some circumstances where those feelings would be rational I suppose. Not that they don't need treating but I don't think it's fair to dismiss people when sometimes these negative thoughts are valid.

I don’t believe in it. It’s the scariest, most painful, awe inspiring thing most of us do. I think to say you have a phobia of it minimises what’s so many women do each day.

ODFOD. You don’t believe in it? This is because people say they have phobias of things when really they just have a natural fear of them.

OP, I don’t think everyone feels the way we do about it. I have friends who loved pregnancy and loved labour. I envy them enormously.

I always knew I was scared of labour and birth, and would want a cs. I didn’t realise how bad it was until I was pregnant, especially when I found out I was having twins. It occupied every waking thought and my dreams. I had panic attacks all the time. Consultants completely dismissed it. I went to a twin antenatal class and vomited. I didn’t sleep for days.

I would love another child but I can’t do it (especially as my other phobia - needles - has been massively exacerbated by a disastrous spinal that was so traumatic I still break into a sweat when I think about it nearly 3 years on). Breaks my heart but I just can’t.

I think it’s very logical and natural to fear labour, personally. But I don’t think the extremity of the reaction is normal and I have friends who were completely unfazed by it.

@TeenTitans - I don't understand how most of you commenting that it's not that bad also don't think it's disgusting in general. A baby's head coming out of a vagina that stretches to a huge size, with blood shit sweat and piss everywhere 😳 that's just objectively horrid!

I honestly cannot relate to that. There are lots of things that are a bit messy but it doesn't make them disgusting or repulsive. Sex and periods could both be considered messy but wouldn't generally be considered disgusting.

I found childbirth to be a very positive experience. I felt really empowered by it. I was lucky to have short, not particularly painful, labours. When I decided I was finished, one of the twinges I felt was a slight disappointment that I would never experience childbirth again.

I had a friend when I was young who had a phobia about having a baby. She literally found it disgusting. She used to cry as she loved her boyfriend but was also terrified of getting pregnant. At the time I thought she was nuts, but I am older and can understand.
I have weird phobias too. I suffer from anxiety due to my past experiences and am also quite afraid of some kinds of social interaction including large groups of people talking loudly.

Not objectively pleasant, but neither is a warrior dash. I'd still do both of those again in a heartbeat. I did enjoy having both of my children and often think about the births and labours with happy memories.

I used to say I wouldn't have children because I was terrified but I guess not to the degree some others are as my desire to have a baby overtook everything else.

Personally I blame the secrecy around childbirth for many fears. I think fear of the unknown combined with people clamouring to tell you their horrific experience (why someone would do that to a pregnant woman I don't know) and media portrayals is responsible for a lot of the fear.

I also think that it isn't taken seriously enough by medical professionals which makes the experience worse for those that are affected.

I think it’s very real for a small proportion of women - i see where you’re coming from re. a way of diminishing normal fears and concerns but I think your underestimating how strongly some women might feel and how irrationally they might behave as a result of their fear.
I have sympathy as there was a point in my life where - due to a sort of OCD (and not the ‘I’m a bit OCD about my sock drawer lol’ kind)- I found pregnant women incredibly disturbing and wouldn’t have sex cos it horrified me to think of something growing inside me. It went away but if that was my life it would be pretty difficult.

The thought of giving birth terrified me from a young age. Mainly because my mother fed me horror stories about childbirth, and how horrific it was. Even though l found out later that l was actually born in the bed during visiting time, and my dad actually delivered me. He told me it was so quick that the nurses didn't even have time to get there.
lt absolutely did have an effect on me. The thought of giving birth still terrifies me, and l'm 60 now.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss people when sometimes these negative thoughts are valid
Saying a fear is irrational isn't dismissing someone or their fears. It's simply pointing out that the fear ISN'T rational or proportionate and they need extra support

And the "it isn't irrational we all feel like it" in the face of most people saying no and refusing to accept that they genuinely don't feel like you is part of the disordered thinking

Didn't see one of your previous posts.

I don't think it's disgusting either, I think it's amazing to know that I can take microscopic cells, grow them into a baby with all their internal organs, they can see, hear, everything. Then to get them into the world so I can see what my body has done. Even poor DH who was the reluctant midwife for dc2 (home birth, midwife didn't make it) thought it was amazing.

I'm another who also enjoyed the pushing stage. Not the crowning, that was the most hideous bit but over very quickly.

I'm not saying everyone feels the way I do. Just that when looking at it factually, it's more rational to find squeezing a baby out your vagina horrible than pleasant or positive.

Re sex and periods, I find periods disgusting too and sex can be, however with sex it's pleasurable therefore that sort of outweighs the grossness the majority of the time. Maybe I am just squeamish.

Gummy interesting, my DH agrees with me that it's hideous. He's glad I opted for c sections as he thinks he'd have passed out if I'd done it naturally.

Having read this thread through again it seems to me your diagnosis is probably reasonable! You sound like your fears are more extreme than most people, and also like me when I was irrationally disgusted by pregnant women.

He was the first thing dc2 laid eyes on, and the first person to see him. He is normally squeamish too.

I studied A-level Biology at school and I am not disgusted by insects or spiders or anything like that. Foetuses, however! I can't look at pictures of them - I feel sick. I can't look at people's ultrasound scans. I suppose it's relatively new - the average person being able to see a foetus...I know it's weird and it's my problem. I just can't help it.

I guess on the 'disgust' factor, it makes me feel human. A mammal. It's part of my connection to this planet. As I said, having DD1 was transformational for me.

My DH is from a farming family so he didn't find human birth out of the ordinary. Just less work than lambing! 😄

Personally I think birth is repulsive and would never want to go through that. I'd rather adopt if I wanted kids, but I don't want kids. It's not beautiful or a miracle and not something I want to put myself through. Women can die from childbirth complications so I don't think it's illogical to be frightened of birth.

@Hannah It’s not repulsive.

@TeenTitans - it's more rational to find squeezing a baby out your vagina horrible than pleasant or positive.

Given that you have been diagnosed with a phobia, which is defined as an irrational fear, you're possibly not best placed (and I mean this kindly) to determine the rationality or otherwise of your attitude towards childbirth. I don't think a debilitating fear of, and utter revulsion towards, childbirth is rational. A bit of apprehension is perfectly rational, particularly if it's your first, but tokophobia is extreme and pretty unusual.

I'm not trying to minimise your fears or your attitude but I do find it a bit odd that you are trying to insist that your attitude is the rational and "normal" one when most posters have said they don't feel that way. Tokophobia is a real condition. Someone who has it needs help to deal with the irrational element if they want to have children.

If tokophobia was a normal and rational reaction to childbirth, the human race would probably have died out eons ago.

It’s further complicated by the fact that most phobias are based on something people have a direct experience of. It’s very hard to understand enough about childbirth to be truly phobic unless you’ve done it.

I guess for me it’s more that medical staff are unable to give you real reassurance that things aren’t likely to be horrific. Straightforward births do happen, but not nearly often enough for it to make me feel as though my overwhelming terror isn’t justified. They can’t even really guarantee that the staff will respect me or provide good care(not because of their intentions necessarily, just being overstretched), and I can see it in their faces when I say this to them, or what I ask for actual facts and figures. I don’t think even they believe in what they’re trying to convince me, so it’s hard to really see my phobia as irrational.

I know a few people who have had positive birth experiences, but I also know so many who have had awful, traumatic experiences. And as pp said, even “minor” complications can be horrific. It’s not a % risk I’d be inclined to take in any other medical scenario.

I’m pregnant with my first child, and I honestly don’t know what I’ll do if they say they won’t let me have a CS. I think I’d have to consider a termination, even though my partner and I have been trying for years to have this baby. It would break my heart, but I just can’t do it.