To think tokophobia isn't a phobia but a normal reaction to the horror of childbirth

[TeenTitans]

And that the classification of it as a phobia is another symptom of society dismissing women's valid concerns as hysteria?

Even the most straight forward birth is still objectively awful. It's a large object being forced out of a small vagina. There are people who say they had a great birth but I highly doubt it would be up there with a romantic meal out, a good book or riveting film on anyones list of "fun things I'd like to be doing later".

Being afraid or repulsed by it seems very logical and classing women as mentally ill for voicing this isn't okaym

That’s what I meant. Non phobic people would probably not use the word repulsive.

DM only had me, she thought it was so hideous. I wish beyond all things I had siblings. I have 3. Found the birth bit tricky (way far from normal birth) but I love how my 3 love each other.

You could say the same about emetophobia. Nobody thinks vomiting is fun, but there is a difference between how we generally feel about being sick and people who have a real phobia about it. I think it’s the same with childbirth.

I think a phobia is a fear above what is considered the norm.

It's perfectly normal to be fearful of childbirth or find the experience very painful and unpleasant. It's not the norm for that fear to severely negatively effect your life, for example by putting you off having children.

Like emetophobia - no one likes vomiting or cleaning it up. But it doesn't pray on most people's minds or effect their day to day activities.

There is no way having half period half stomach bug type cramps resulting in something large shooting out your vagina is ever going to be an objectively pleasant experience

Is that all it is ? for normal - not 32 hour labour, back to back, ventous with episiotomy - births are actually like?

Sorry - not diminishing, I was traumatised, relived it over and over . I still -via IVF -tried another 7 times to be able to do it again.

YABU
You've been diagnosed with tokophobia and it seems clear to me that you are framing this whole debate in terms of your own extremely negative view of pregnancy and childbirth.
I did not enjoy pregnancy (understatement, hated most of it) but I still found some positive aspects and I think it's a miracle that my body made another person.
Giving birth was the most painful and diffficult thing I've ever done, it was traumatic, but I still wouldn't describe it the way you have done.
Some women do have positive and easy births, it happens.
It's normal to be scared of childbirth but the extreme way you see it is not normal or healthy. Sorry.

I must admit that when it turned out my dh had low fertility during tests before starting chemo soon after we married, that I was not too upset. I was offered the chance to go on the IVF waiting list by the nurse who was giving us counselling after his poor fertility results and she looked at me in amazement when I refused and said that I would rather look into adoption (which we did) and I had a hard job convincing my dh that his lack of fertility did not make a bit of difference to me and I was more than happy to adopt. I can honestly say I could never imagine myself as being pregnant or giving birth, more so as I got older - I always said to my mum that I would never have a baby, but that did not mean that I would never be a mother - somehow I always knew I would adopt. It amazes me how some people view adoption as their last resort, they have do everything they can to create a "mini-me", when there are so many wonderful children out there already in need of parents. I realise it is a very personal thing and thats just my opinion, but just because someone does not want to be pregnant or give birth does not necessarily mean they do not want to be a mother.

This is reminding me of when I was at my most depressed and could not understand why everyone was not also suicidal as existence was so terrible.

I'm very fortunate to have found pregnancy and birth largely positive experiences. My second birth was genuinely wonderful. I was euphoric. Everyone has different experiences. It's important for women to be well informed, aware of possible risks and with as realistic expectations as possible, but as birth can genuinely be wonderful why should everyone be expected to view it negatively?

It is very, very real and it is offensive to women with it to class it as anything less than a phobia.

To avoid sex and sexual contact for fear of getting pregnant due to the insane fear of having to give birth or have a termination, leading to dysfunctional unhealthy relationships or even lack of ability to have a relationship at all due to the natural desires of your partner to have sexual contact, is awful.

To feel theres no level of protection good enough to feel safe, regardless of an implant and a condom/other doubling up of methods to still have that insane fear you'll be the 1 on how ever minimal odds that will still get pregnant.

I wouldn't wish this on anybody.

I have a total phobia of dentists Logically, I understand that if I have toothache a dentist will be able to make it feel better. Unfortunately I am so terrified I just put up with the pain sometimes for weeks or months. I could go to the dentist and feel much better at the end if or but I just cant do it

A fear of birth must be similar. Logically desperate for a baby but too phobic / terrified to go through the process of getting one.

A phobia is not a dislike of something it's a total abject and uncontrollable fear that in my case means I'd rather be in serious pain and in the case of someone with tokophobia prevents them having children.

For my part I'd rather give birth without pain relief every day for a week than go to the dentist

“Even if it's okay, it's still objectively unpleasant isn't it?”

So are lots of things though, dentists for instance.

Nobody wakes up going, yay it’s my dentist’s appointment today, do they?

But some people aren’t hugely bothered, some people are a bit anxious but cope, some people get really quite upset about it but manage with support and some find it so bad that they will just live with dental issues rather than go.

You’ll have that same range with giving birth.

I think it depends on risk, both how likely it is to happen and the enormity of the consequences even if it's unlikely statistically. It's incredibly rare to become permanently injured or suffer from a fatality from the dentists, but those things can and do happen to both mums and babies during birth.

I have had three children, three births. First didn't go to plan but wasn't enough to put me off. Second was absolute bliss. Perfect birth. Yes there was pain but it's how you deal with it (in an uncomplicated birth of course.)
Third.. I'll never have another child as a result of my experience. Medically I could. But no

My sister has it, it a real thing.

She will never have the children she desperately wants because of it.

Of course it is a real phobia and the fact that you are suggesting it isnt despite being "diagnosed", makes me question the diagnosis and person who diagnosed you.

It always makes me really sad to hear of women who would love to have children being too afraid to have them.

Therapy and C-sections can be transformative for this. Provision on the NHS can be patchy, though, and, of course, not everyone can afford private therapy. I wish the NHS would do more to help.

Do you ever fly? One of my phobias is flying. People die on flights. Yes pilots and aircrew wouldn't do it if they didn't think it was safe. I've flown twice since my phobia developed and I can't get my brain to accept taking the risk when I don't need to.
All you're doing here is seeking validation for your phobia. That in itself is a manifestation of the phobia.

A friend of mine is so terrified of the idea of child birth that she put her health at risk by using multiple forms of birth control, and still panicked every time she had sex. She also feels sick if people talk about it.
Fear giving birth is natural and normal, that reaction isn’t.

Isn’t it a bit like snakes? It’s absolutely logical to be terrified. Because I don’t need to worry about snakes I don’t “suffer” with a phobia.

I felt scared and possibly “phobic” of birth, but it felt logical. I read birth stories to try to desensitise myself, especially after the first birth didn’t go to plan (induction & epidural and very close to a trip to theatre but extremely lucky). Second went perfectly, no pain relief in a pool but I found it repulsive. The idea of birth makes me feel sick. I can’t watch it on TV. It’s not even about the risk of death. I’m so relieved I’ll never do it again. Same with breastfeeding, awful feeling at times - I fed both for a year as I felt I should. Same for aiming for a “natural” birth.

Pyongyang I had a cesarean because of it. Me thinking these feelings and thoughts are logical rather than irrational doesn't mean I don't experience them. What I was trying to say was that I think on the basis of evidence, aversion to giving birth and a fear of it is a logical response. Not that it's not a genuine response.

Im not phobic but when offered an elective c-section jumped at the chance..the horror stories that a lot of women ive lived/worked with around the world share would simply not be tolerated by men.Just that if men had to endure that crap birth rates wouldve nosed dived..Why the expectation that as a women'we endure'..Sadly most are conditioned to wear 'natural'excruciating/disfiguring childbirth it like a badge of pride.

I am concerned that in recent times childbirth and breastfeeding are described in overwhelmingly negative terms. Obviously honesty is important, and there was a time when difficulties were glossed over. But I have noticed that both on here and in real life, women whose stories don’t fit the “objectively awful worst experience ever narrative@ are often reluctant to speak out. Women need to be prepared for the worst- but be aware that the worst may not happen.

I am talking about privileged developed world women like us, of course.

I was nervous before I had DD1. More fear of the unknown than anything else.

That birth transformed the way I feel about my body. I've never felt a raw, female power like it before. I guess I just saw my body as transport for my brain. But, not now. I still feel empowered many years later.

I wasn't nervous before I had DD2. I knew what to expect and what I needed. The only difference was it was faster and I didn't seem to go through transition.

I would happily give birth again.

Bertrand it is in most cases a negative thing though isn't it? Few (not none) have a painless birth.