Do you think there will be a 2nd referendum?

[oweus]

Many of my friends and acquaintances seem to think so. I still think it's unlikely.

To be fair UK citizens haven't had a say, our representative governments have- and they've made a mess of it.

How have UK citizens not had a say ? We elect MEPs, and our own MPs. Just our MPs have found it much easier to use the EU as a whipping boy to disguise their motives and failures .... returning to the fact that all the "EU" decisions Leavers dredged up as examples of how bad the EU was turned out to be the direct result of UK government action.

We have as much say as any other EU citizens. We vote in our own MPs and we vote in our MEPs. We had the opportunity to change our own voting system and it was voted down. I am perhaps unusual in the UK / England in that I am pro ever closer union and am not anti a federalised EU. The UK MEPs are heavily dominated by eurosceptics or outright right wing and anti Europe. They are far more representative of leave voters than of people like me.

I am perhaps unusual in the UK / England in that I am pro ever closer union and am not anti a federalised EU.

About as unusual as me, then ....

And me.

I am perhaps unusual in the UK / England in that I am pro ever closer union and am not anti a federalised EU. Me too. I think it'll take time, but I see nothing against it except the backwards drag of people's nationalism.

I think it'll take time, but I see nothing against it except the backwards drag of people's nationalism.

The noise from the USA suggests there's no incompatibility with federalism and nationalism ....