To think if this T shirt were the other way round, we’d never hear the end of it

[HermioneWeasley]

Spotted by someone over 6 foot at a women’s day march.

If it said “kill all trans women” the wearer would (rightly) be arrested for inciting violence, but I have seen women defending their right to wear it because they were “driven to it”.

Like men are driven to kill women all the time.

owlbethere

It would be nice if you felt able to say the t-shirt threatening to kill women was wrong without going on to say what women have done wrong to deserve it.

I’m pretty moderate about trans issues compared to many on these boards but when it comes to violence against women it makes my blood boil.

Yes, the nastiness can be on both 'sides'. Digs, sarcasm, stupid t shirts. Stick to the points. Most people I know that are not engaging in these discussions are not doing so because they are put off by the above.

Most people I know that are not engaging in these discussions are not doing so because they are put off by the above.

Oh yes, it's the mean old feminists that make you not able to formulate an opinion. Ain't it always the way. Damn those feminists.

Why? Why is it our responsibility to ‘stick to the points’ in case we upset someone? Or stop people engaging? Anyone who’s more ‘put off’ by some biological realism than death threats and the rest of the shit TRAs come out with is probably not worth engaging with IMHO.

I don’t think it’s helpful or nice to take the piss about people identifying as broccoli eyes - but are you suggesting there is any comparison at all between that sort of thing and wearing a t-shirt saying “kill the terf”?

sackrifice

That's actual sarcasm

Oh yes, it's the mean old feminists that make you not able to formulate an opinion. Ain't it always the way. Damn those feminists.

Who said anything about them not having an opinion? It's saying there opinion that is the issue. Sigh.

It's saying there opinion that is the issue. Sigh.

What, I don't understand. Where is the opinion?

That's actual sarcasm

Oh fuck.

I don’t think it’s helpful or nice to take the piss about people identifying as broccoli eyes - but are you suggesting there is any comparison at all between that sort of thing and wearing a t-shirt saying “kill the terf”?

Tbh I just think its all childish as I said in my very first post. I don't know if the t shirt was an actual threat, probably more a pathetic way to get attention. It's not okay to say kill anyone obviously but I don't know if it's a crime to wear a tshirt saying it. Anyone that wears t shirts with messages on them I just think 🙄, there goes an attention seeking twat.

What, I don't understand. Where is the opinion?

What I mean is that many people I know have opinions on these issues but don't speak up because of the digs, sarcasm etc that is on many forums like this one. Many do feel strongly about the need discussions around self ID, trans people in sport and prisons etc but are put off. One woman said everything was fine when she was saying she thought there was no place for trans women in women's prisons but then she referred to a trans woman as 'she' and was immediately jumped on as 'she' should be reserved for women born with a vagina. She said she was treated like the enemy for saying she was happy to call a trans woman 'she'. I don't know if it was on mumsnet or another forum. She just doesn't discuss it anymore. It's a shame as she's an intelligent woman and I imagine she has some good points to make.

Loads of posters on here including me have called transwomen 'she' and not had any grief

Its a shame your friend had some problems and she felt she was unable to discuss it further

many people I know have opinions on these issues but don't speak up because of the digs, sarcasm etc that is on many forums like this one. Many do feel strongly about the need discussions around self ID, trans people in sport and prisons etc but are put off.

I agree with this comment. It isn't too bad on this forum, but on Twitter you have to be really careful how you word a post - the slightest innocuous slip-of-the-keyboard and you get horribly abused, and I can believe that there are forums that are the same - I can understand why people might prefer to keep their opinions to themselves.

It seems that individuals who are filled with hate have the energy and malice to keep hurling spite and scorn, which just overwhelms those who are trying to be fair and consider all sides of the argument. Unfortunately this stops proper debate and discussion, and means that the more rabid and aggressive someone is, the more likely they are to just steamroller everything before them. Which is, of course, their preferred tactic.

SchadenfreudePersonified

Exactly. I read today that something like 70% of the racist/violent comments made about Meghan Markle on Twitter came from just 20 accounts. It just shows that a few people with strong views who may be aggressive or team up with others can dominate and push their view forwards.

In real life for me, I'm fairly busy. I've just gone back to work after spending years raising children and come on here when I get chance. If I'm jumped on by 20 people when I say something that disagrees with them, I tend to give up quicker than they do as the threads on this topic always go the same way usually dominated by the same usernames.

Exactly. I read today that something like 70% of the racist/violent comments made about Meghan Markle on Twitter came from just 20 accounts

Yeah i read that

Incredible really...busy fuckers

I think I might be a TERF!

Congratulations @Soontobe60