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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if this T shirt were the other way round, we’d never hear the end of it

193 replies

HermioneWeasley · 10/03/2019 09:35

Spotted by someone over 6 foot at a women’s day march.

If it said “kill all trans women” the wearer would (rightly) be arrested for inciting violence, but I have seen women defending their right to wear it because they were “driven to it”.

Like men are driven to kill women all the time.

To think if this T shirt were the other way round, we’d never hear the end of it
OP posts:
McTufty · 10/03/2019 14:35

@treaclesweet

So you think violence against women is ok if they deserve it for having the wrong opinion? To coin a phrase, right side of history my arse.

Notwotuknow · 10/03/2019 14:39

It is the factual truth that transwomen are men.
They are not women, and that is why we have the prefix 'trans' in front of the word 'transwoman'.
It differentiates them from 'women'.
It is also why the word woman doesn't need the prefix 'cis'. The word 'women' is enough.
Everyone knows what a woman is; even those that pretend not to.

TemporaryPermanent · 10/03/2019 14:41

I antinazi wouldn't antinazi be too delighted antinazi about t-shirts saying antinazi 'kill the Nazi' in that extrajudicial violence is always a bad sign for a society.

[tries to work out if Treaclesweet can still screenshot this to prove MN is an antinazi far right antinazi recruitment antinazi camp]

Treaclesweet · 10/03/2019 14:43

Temporary permanent are you ok? Do you need an ambulance?

GregoryPeckingDuck · 10/03/2019 14:43

Would that be an incitement to violence?

Treaclesweet · 10/03/2019 14:45

Incidentally I am not screenshotting anything. I'm on Mumsnet for the mums, that's why i mostly ignore your trans-exclusionary-radical-unfeminist circle-jerk.

I do wish you'd keep it to the "feminism" board though.

Treaclesweet · 10/03/2019 14:46

Don't be ridiculous.

She's typing as if she's had a stroke ffs.

Treaclesweet · 10/03/2019 14:46

It's as I said before, you're just so desperate to feel victimised you've taken up the anti-trans cause.

TemporaryPermanent · 10/03/2019 14:50

I'm a stroke speech and language therapist Treaclesweet. if you are too, perhaps one day we could debate your unusual views about aphasia presentation.

Pewdie · 10/03/2019 14:52

can we please not do calling trans women he and referring to them as men?

Personally, I prefer to acknowledge biological reality. At least until women stop being screwed over by MEN.

buzzbobbly · 10/03/2019 14:54

Gosh yes you are so right Treacle. Let the scales fall from our eyes and see that all we are doing is being un-feminist victims! Huzzah! It all makes perfect sense now.

I prostrate myself at your feet for your all-seeing wisdom and bounteous knowledge of the whole subject.

No really, I do.

No, I DO.

BrinkPink · 10/03/2019 14:54

I'm not desperate to feel victimised at all. I've been basically supportive of people wanting to change sex since I first heard about it approx 40 years ago (though always a bit confused about why people seemed to associate traditional gender norms with what sex you actually are).

It's only the unreasonable demands and weird thoughtcrime politics of the last few years that have pushed me to defend women's rights against overbearing, aggressive and factually illogical transactivism.

JacquesHammer · 10/03/2019 14:57

It's as I said before, you're just so desperate to feel victimised you've taken up the anti-trans cause

Another poster who is so hard of thinking they can’t distinguish between “anti-trans” and “pro-woman”.

BejamNostalgia · 10/03/2019 15:01

It’s a general symptom of the society we live in these days. It’s become perfectly acceptable for some sections of society to openly call for violence and persecution of their political opponents even when those opponents are acting within the law. A lot of people believe that a political disagreement is now a perfectly acceptable justification for removing the rights of others to vote or speak or hold positions of responsibility.

And many people believe their own views are perfect and beyond debate or reproach and that they have the right to rule and compel society to live according to their philosophy regardless of whether or not that is what the majority of that society want.

I think we’re half way down a very slippery slope into becoming a very, very frightening and oppressive place.

goldengummybear · 10/03/2019 15:13

The shirt slogan isn’t ok at all, but can we please not do calling trans women he and referring to them as men?

You're making assumptions that the photo is of a trans woman. Men can have long hair and wear non-baggy t-shirts you know.

goodwinter · 10/03/2019 15:15

@ScienceItUsedToBeAThing I'd appreciate that - thanks!

LunafortJest · 10/03/2019 15:33

@Fromage Where I am 'tranny' was used to refer to transvestites. Or 'drag queens'. Such as men who dress up as women. Not as actual transgenders. It was a term of endearment, or just a shortened form of transvestite. It wasn't offensive until recently. And transvestites never took offence either, they still refer to each other as that. Only those that identify as transgender really took/take offence, and I think that is because they were sick of people confusing transvestite with transgender.

icelolly99 · 10/03/2019 15:35

I've rtwt and I still have no idea what TERF/this t-shirt slogan actually means...... Hmm

McTufty · 10/03/2019 15:41

icelolly99 TERF stands for trans exclusionary radical feminist, but basically it’s used as a term for anyone who believes feminism should centre - or even consider - female people rather than basically change its parameters and aims to include male people who identify as women is trans women.

But it is almost always used in the context of abuse and threats against women holding such views.

TowelNumber42 · 10/03/2019 15:50

It means kill the women who do not believe people can change sex.

LunafortJest · 10/03/2019 15:56

@Treaclesweet I haven't seen one post that has called Transpeople 'deviant'.

You also clearly cannot see that it is about the violence towards women, the advocacy of killing. Not just genitals.

TalkingintheDark · 10/03/2019 15:57

@Kateandme @callmeadoctor
TERF doesn’t make much sense if you’ve never come across this ideology before. The first time I read it on here, I googled it and and gave up, none the wiser. (That and “cis”.) It just took me into discussions of things I really didn’t have a clue about, and made my head hurt.

Then I saw a thread in AIBU about someone who to me was very, very clearly and visibly male complaining about not being able to use the women’s changing rooms in Primark. And I discovered that unbeknownst to me, a whole new ideology had grown up and taken hold while I wasn’t looking, and this ideology proclaims that any male person - any male person whatsoever - has the right to call themselves a woman if they believe they are a woman.

They don’t need to have gender dysphoria. They don’t need to have any surgery or other medical treatment. They don’t need to wear stereotypically “women’s clothing” - they don’t even need to shave off their beard or stubble. All they need is to proclaim that their inner “gender identity” is female and Shazam! They literally are a woman.

Most (around 80% at least) males who identify as transgender keep their penis and testicles. Their penis is apparently now a “female penis” (see also ladydick, girl cock, as in “suck my lady dick” or “choke on my girl cock”).

Trans Rights Activists are campaigning for all males who identify as female to be treated under law and socially as if they actually are women. To be allowed free access to all single sex spaces such as changing rooms, toilets, refuges, rape crisis services, hospital wards, prisons; to be allowed to compete in women’s sport, to be able to receive awards and scholarships reserved for women.

And indeed there are examples of all of those things already happening, both here and abroad.

Males who identify as female can currently apply for a GRC (gender recognition certificate) which means they get a new birth certificate issued saying they were the opposite sex at birth to the one they actually were born, if you follow me.

(Females who identify as male can do the same thing but interestingly, females who would then inherit land/titles etc according the sexist laws of male primogeniture are specifically exempted from this legislation. I can’t think why.)

TRAs are pushing for self ID which would mean that any male who identities as female could get a GRC just by asking for it, instead of the two year process they currently have to go through (proof of gender dysphoria necessary; medical treatment not necessary).

TRAs have also created a climate in which anyone arguing against their ideology is demonised and framed as a bigot, a dinosaur, someone against the sweet march of progress. On the “wrong side of history”. This has been a very cunning plan to disguise the fact their own ideology is profoundly sexist, misogynist and homophobic and has only succeeded the way it has because of male privilege.

As a result of this positioning of themselves as the last frontier of the civil rights movement, TRAs have now got the ear of the government, the BBC, the NHS, every main political party, the MSM, universities, schools... the list is endless. Any and all opposition, request for debate, expression of concern is met with accusations of bigotry and vile prejudice.

TRAs love to hurl slurs, abuse and death threats at women who disagree with them (and sometimes even physical violence), demonstrating deeply male patterns of behaviour: a wish to control and dominate women, and violent tendencies that we normally associate with men. (There are also a considerable number of trans sex offenders, some of whom have been housed in women’s prisons. You can guess what happened then.)

And TERF, the acronym for “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” is the go-to slur for basically any woman who doesn’t believe and will never believe that there is such a thing as the female penis, who doesn’t want any kind of penis in women only spaces, or any male person competing in women’s sport etc etc.

Just to clarify Mummyoflittledragon’s post, it is Trans Rights Activists who believe that some women have a penis, not “TERFs”!

Most emphatically not.

Sorry this is so long. It’s hard to condense it if you have no prior knowledge of the issue at all, as I presume you haven’t if you’re not familiar with the term “TERF”.

If you want to know more, there’s an excellent thread called “Break it down for me” on Feminism Chat.

JaneJeffer · 10/03/2019 16:11

Great post Talking

JaneJeffer · 10/03/2019 16:15

I'm on Mumsnet for the mums eh?

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/03/2019 16:33

Talking
Yes of course I see the confusion in my post. I was referring to the males identifying as females, deffo not “TERFS”.

Thx for your comprehensive explanation.