To think if this T shirt were the other way round, we’d never hear the end of it

[HermioneWeasley]

Spotted by someone over 6 foot at a women’s day march.

If it said “kill all trans women” the wearer would (rightly) be arrested for inciting violence, but I have seen women defending their right to wear it because they were “driven to it”.

Like men are driven to kill women all the time.

The equivalent relating to a religion would be "kills the muslim" or "kill the christian". It's not at all just about the ideology, it's quite clearly about killing a person or people.

However I wouldn't say it's OK and they can get away with it - I'd say that's quite clearly an incitement to violence and could be prosecuted.

Transwomen are not women, factually, biologically or in terms of experience. But (if they can manage to be civil about it too) I can respect that they would like to be a woman and might decide to live as one. I will call a transwomen she and by a female name as long as they respect me and my experience of being a woman and understand it is not the exact same thing. Because it's not.

This person kind of failed on the respect-o-meter.

Crimp which trans woman has been called a he on this thread?

*transwoman. My autocorrect changes it to two separate words sorry.

Surely this is literal violence. Or a literal threat of violence to those of us who aren't as stupid. And on a thread where people are fussing over pronouns.

:(

Crimp I understand why it makes people uncomfortable but the pronouns he and she were never about someone's chosen gender. They were about someone's observed sex. So it is unfair to ask people who do not believe in gender to pretend they can't see this male's sex. You also have no idea what this person's pronouns are. You're assuming due to the long hair that he identifies as a woman and not non binary or something else. This is transphobic. The person is observably male so the correct pronouns are he.

In fact wearing a shirt saying that women should be murdered on IWD is such a man thing to do it would be assumed that the person identified as a man by gender rules anyway.

The shirt slogan isn’t ok at all, but can we please not do calling trans women he and referring to them as men?

So a man has a t-shirt on that states he wants to kill women, and the most important thing about it is to not mis-gender him and to state that he in a woman [because he has long hair? What is it about that picture that makes you think he is a woman? Is it the death threats?]

Just as we are supposed to refer to "her" penis when talking about a transwoman who rapes

Oh hang on, Crimp is referring to the person in the picture?

How do you know they identify as a woman crimp? I can see someone else in the background with a male appearance and a male with long hair in the foreground. Without further information surely it's acceptable to assume that someone who has the appearance of a man is a man?

Or are we determining sex based on hair length these days?

Very good point. Crimp what makes you assume this person is a she?

Another man who hates women as Lisbeth Salander would say

Identity politics rubbish is making the world a horrible place.

I thought we shouldn’t assume gender? I see a man in the picture. I will use sex appropriate pronouns for him.

That T shirt is abhorrent and deliberately inflammatory, whatever sodding pronouns you want to use for the wearer...

Trans women in general, not specifically the person in the image.

One person wearing a horrible slogan doesn’t have to lead to a string of posts being derogatory about trans people in general. Or at least, it shouldn’t, though it does seem to very often.

Is it being derogatory to acknowledge the fact that transwomen are men?

Trans women in general, not specifically the person in the image.

What is it that makes a man turn into a woman then?

As I see men being abusive towards women, whilst berating other women for not calling them women. I see men harassing women into chanting 'trans women are women' as if some sort of magical mantra.

If you believe that a man can change, can you explain what happens, what makes a man turn into a woman?

Thanks in advance.

Fucking hell that's awful

@crimp what’s derogatory?

I have no idea if this person is male or female, or identifies as male or female, or indeed non-binary, thats up to them. That tee shirt though is offensive and I dont think wearing something like that is ever acceptable

Go on then Crimp, what makes you assume that the person in the photo is a woman?

@CrimpMyArse

I'll bite. The statistics around trans women are almost entirely made up when you do more than five minutes of research. I'm not being unkind, it's true. Most don't want to cut their penises off and have reassignment surgery. They believe sex is a feeling based on stereotypes and therefore accept a woman can have a female penis. That a woman can be a lesbian who uses her penis in another woman. They retain male privilege and socialisation. Male criminality and have very high rates of sex offenders in the prison system compared to their population. Why should women call them women?

I'll happy discuss this forever with you. No hate, no nastiness.