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Why are people still deluding themselves about Michael Jackson??

999 replies

waxahatchee · 26/02/2019 18:54

If any grown man I know invited children to sleep in his bed with him there would be absolutely no question about what was going on. I am sure that most people would agree, why are so many people still deluding themselves about this?? Makes me so cross, why do they even play his music on the radio??

OP posts:
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5
SpiritedLondon · 27/02/2019 22:51

Noname99

No worries - I wasn’t offended. It’s not my field now but I did quite a lot of work around interviewing children & child trauma. It’s the most emotionally draining , difficult work I ever did.

HowlsMovingBungalow · 27/02/2019 22:56

I'm aghast as a survivor @Noname99

Appauled with it all.

ResistanceIsNecessary · 28/02/2019 08:30

It's certainly been an eye-opener. I'd challenge anyone to read that list of items, that a poster linked to earlier, and maintain that he was a child-like innocent who just loved to spend time with kids.

Not terribly child-like to have porn everywhere. Quite disturbing when the common theme of that porn is "barely legal". And then things become quite sinister when the evidence includes "art" books of nude teens and pre-pubescent children, and photos of nude adults where a child's face has been morphed over the top.

But hey, he was a gifted artist and dancer, so that means he must be above board. In the same way that Roman Polanski drugging, raping and sodomising a 13 y/o girl is completely overlooked because he's a talented film-maker - who just happens to be a fugitive from the US because he pleaded guilty and then legged it before he could be sentenced. In the same way that Kevin Spacey groped, assaulted and threatened multiple young men, can be overlooked because he's a bloody good actor. In the same way that Bill Cosby's a funny guy so who cares if he drugged, attacked and raped multiple women? And Woody Allen? Great director, who had that funny business marrying his much-younger step-daughter, and whose behaviour to his adopted daughter was abusive - read the Judge's summing up in the custody case; it's bloody heartbreaking.

People often ask how we can still discover ongoing grooming, abuse, rape and exploitation of children, that nobody did anything to stop. They question why someone didn't step in, why nobody raised the alarm, why nobody listened to the children and the victims... This thread is a bloody good illustration of exactly why it still happens, why it still gets covered up and why hardly anybody gets prosecuted and punished for it. Everyone is quick to judge when there's a smoking gun, but until the point where there is concrete evidence, they want to turn a blind eye, pretend it's not happening and not have to confront the fact that their favourite singer, actor, celeb, next door neighbour, is a predator and an abuser.

SinkGirl · 28/02/2019 08:35

i think there was probably a more to this than meets the eye, the evidence was he was innocent

You’re a cop and you don’t know the difference between innocent and a not guilty verdict?

I really hope you’re nothing to do with law enforcement since you clearly have absolutely no idea about sexual abuse.

tattyheadsmum · 28/02/2019 08:55

@ResistanceIsNecessary great (but really sad) post.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 28/02/2019 15:15

www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2004/03/michael-jackson-alleged-child-molestation-maureen-orth

Article dating back pre criminal trial. She said afterwards iirc that some jurors thought Jackson might have been guilty but found Janet, the mother, to be more culpable and less credible?

Orth also wrote at length about Woody Allen (her article on him also had parts refuted).

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/57dd98d5e4b0d5920b5b2cdf?guccounter=1&guce_referrer_us=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbGxmb3Jsb3ZlYmxvZy5jb20vP3A9MTA5NzE&guce_referrer_cs=ho3I8_AD7JgBOMQT5wXc1w

Article: Media accountability and Celebrity trials

Robson's current lawyer Vince Finaldi assisted Michael Egan with his papers in the Ancier trial against him. He might therefore be sympathetic to historic abuse cases or after monetary compensation from civil actions or both.

Everyone is quick to judge when there's a smoking gun, but until the point where there is concrete evidence, they want to turn a blind eye

I think there is truth in that, but also that without a smoking gun, sadly, more often than not, you will be forced to come back with a verdict of not guilty when it is more a case of not proven.

hellenbackagen · 28/02/2019 15:52

As a victim of abuse I'd like to think I do know something about it. I was in care by 11 years old because of it. I've never had any victim I've looked after complain that I didn't do a job properly.

No one knows what happened apart from him and the people involved.

I think trial my media is unhelpful and he is not here to answer the allegations.

And yes as I'm in law enforcement I would argue that until a court of law proves a person guilty then I am not judge or jury. A police officers job is gather evidence and conduct a 360 degree investigation. Which is what I do impartially and remains important that I do.

hellenbackagen · 28/02/2019 15:54

I'm no fan either, just to add....

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 28/02/2019 16:04

Jury:
Ray Hultman and Eleanor Cook both claim they should have found him guilty - both however have had books out $ about their volte-face.
Pauline Coccoz - says she would still find him innocent.
Paul Rodriguez - The jury foreman said jurors were "very troubled" that Jackson, by his own admission, had overnight sleepovers with children in his bed.

But Rodriguez, a 63-year-old retired high school counselor from Santa Maria, said jurors were instructed by the judge to base their verdicts on the facts of the case, not "our beliefs or our own personal thoughts."

hellenbackagen · 28/02/2019 16:06

What I meant by not giving a rats- he's dead. Nothing can come of it and he can't be punished.

I don't think trial by media is ever a good thing.

Bowing out now as I feel Thatnin trying to remain impartial I'm being criticised and actually that's a very important part in my role - impartiality. As a victim of abuse myself of course the victim should be heard.

But the fact remains he died. In law you cannot prosecute a dead person and a trial was conducted that found him not guilty. Maybe I've learned to walk away and not dwell on verdicts because they can't be changed after the event.

I think my intentions on this were misunderstood.

Aeroflotgirl · 28/02/2019 16:07

If he were not a famous pop star, he would be another dirty paedophile.

soberfabulous · 28/02/2019 17:10

My goodness that Reddit link is compelling, with heaps of fact based evidence! Shock

alaric77 · 28/02/2019 17:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bluerussian · 28/02/2019 17:26

The entire scenario was extremely weird, I've no idea whether or not Michael Jackson was guilty of abusing kids but what sort of parents allow their children to sleep in the same room as a grown man? I honestly don't know, there has been no real evidence.

Perhaps we should leave it all behind us and just remember him as an artiste, until someone is actually prepared to say he did something to them which so far has not happened.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 28/02/2019 17:32

The Sean Lennon video with Noel Fielding is the weirdest thing I have seen all week.The lyrics are also worth a look.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 28/02/2019 17:40

which so far has not happened
Where have you been?
Jordan Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, James Safechuck
All five have said things happened to them. The question is: if you believe one, do you believe all....if you think one is lying, do you throw them all under the bus? The truth could be anything from 0 to 5+ but abusers tend to be repeat offenders.
It is a shame that polygraphs are not 100% reliable and that they are not mandatory - one ex-employee however allegedly passed two.

ColeHawlins · 28/02/2019 18:21

That's really quite a disturbing music video. I think it's probably safe to infer that Sean Lennon believes the allegations, if nothing else.

lboogy · 28/02/2019 20:56

MJ was weird as all hell. However I'm not sure I believe these men. His house was raided by the police and they found no evidence of him molesting children. Not to mention he was tried and was found not guilty

BejamNostalgia · 28/02/2019 21:20

Take colour out of it- not one of those kids has any semblance to their “father”

The youngest, blanket, does. Apparently, he wanted white children and for the first two, that meant white parents. By the time Blanket came along gene selection was possible and legal in America, so he could have a child of his own, but one guaranteed to be as close to white as he could possibly be.

lemonface · 28/02/2019 21:21

Iboogy - did you read all of the thread and still reach that conclusion??

People really don't get the not guilty verdict do they?

How many people are raped but because there is not enough evidence the perpetrator is not guilty. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

HowlsMovingBungalow · 28/02/2019 22:26

Sean Lennon visited Neverland - I have seen photos of him with one of MJ's 'boys'.

googlyeyedpirate · 01/03/2019 01:56

I haven't yet seen the documentaries and honestly unsure

MJ did however get accused of wanting to marry a young girl by someone and she said with her father it was completely untrue and hurtfully fabricated by someone out to make money I think- I can't remember the facts just that I watched them talk about it on this morning or loose women or something

There's also an interview where Lisa Preston says he wasn't the man that he presented as - he was a normal man who spoke normally but thought playing "the victim" worked for him career wise. On that... I don't think he was a childlike mind in a mans body at all. But it worked. As did playing him as weird as possible.

Some of the jurors also said in the case they tried - they had to find him not guilty of what he was accused of in those instances, but that doesn't mean he was definitely not guilty of abuse, only specifically what he was accused of there was not possible to find him guilty of. They will have heard plenty more than any of us and those statements rather than simply saying sorry but the man was innocent so we found him innocent has always made me feel uncomfortable that maybe they do feel he was that type of man but couldn't find him guilty in that case

All that said... I'm not able yet to completely make my mind up - for as many as say he was, as many seem to say they were close and he was eccentric but definitely not

Lovingbenidorm · 01/03/2019 02:11

I said it earlier but feel it needs repeating
We all new what he was doing!!
It was yet another case of fame, money & influence
He groomed whole families to get to young boys
He did it
He was guilty
Eccentric is a word applied to those who hold high social status and respect due to wealth or fame
He wasn’t eccentric
He was mentally unstable and a child abuser

LunafortJest · 01/03/2019 05:45

@PinkCrayon
"He seemed extremely child like" That is the ENTIRE POINT! He used that as a cover. He hid in plain site.

"The other problem with wade robson and the other accuser is they both lied in court under oath previously if this is true as they defended him.
I dont believe any grown man who was apparently molested would be so cool about defending his abuser."

That is common for people who were abused and refused to admit it to themselves or come to terms with it.

"I can safely say if someone extremely rich abused my kids I wouldnt want their money it would feel dirty I would want them in prison"
I can safely say you have no idea what you are talking about. None whatsoever. I would want BOTH. The person sent to jail, and money as compensation for therapy for my child.

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