Friend called my child's behaviour psychotic

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

I bumped into a friend and her 3 year old with my DC in the park this afternoon. We met when our DC became friends at nursery and used to meet up every 2-3 weeks but after she changed her work hours it gradually tailed off. She is pretty rigid with her DC and ensures they adhere to every single rule. I'm more relaxed but definitely don't let them run riot. For example - if no one else was in the park, I wouldn't have a problem with my DC climbing up the slide, if they see puddles I don't mind if they splash in them, if they want to climb trees, collect rocks, stroke dogs - that's fine. My friend always looked shocked and told her DC a firm no to joining in.

My three year old DD is very unpredictable and I have been concerned about her behaviour for a while. Her older sister has HFA and I wonder if she too is on the spectrum, or if she could have ADHD. The incidents that prompted my friend to call her behaviour 'psychotic' were:

DD climbed to the top of a spider web type net and called me to wave. I waved and then 10 seconds later she called me again, I turned round and she leapt off the top of it at me It was high and luckily I wasn't holding the baby and managed to catch her. She has form for doing this - leaping from the top of the stairs at me without warning, jumping off the sofa onto my back when I'm changing baby on the floor. She seems to have no comprehension of what she's done wrong afterwards.

After the park we were all walking to the car park together. We were waiting for a green man to cross the road and I was adjusting my dogs lead as she was tangled and I heard the click of the pushchair break. DD had taken it off and if I hadn't been blocking the wheel with my foot then baby would have rolled into the road. Again, DD appears vacant when told off.

My friend messaged me this evening to say something needs to be done about DD, that her behaviour is psychotic and she doesn't feel safe having her DD around her. She knows I have approached the GP before but without nursery reporting issues they won't refer her.

AIBU to feel totally at a loss as to what to do with DD? I have a feeling this isn't the first friend I've lost over her behaviour. Consequences make no difference to her whatsoever. She hurts me or at least one of her siblings daily without fail due to not thinking through her actions. She's almost 4 now and her speech is pretty much incomprehensible to everyone except me and her siblings but she doesn't care. If we do gluing or painting at home, she'll just cover herself in it or pour it all over the paper. We can't have play doh because she eats it. I can't leave her alone for a minute because she's always so impulsive - I've caught her mid air about to jump on the dog from the kitchen table, stopped her pinning the baby down numerous times. She just looks vacant when being reprimanded and carries on the way she is.

I wonder if you bring more “relaxed” thank your friend comes across as lax parenting. For example, she shouldn’t be climbing up the slide whether other kids are there or not. You sound more lax than most parents I know from your description. That being said, your friend was unreasonable (and incorrect) in calling your child psychotic. That’s not what it means.

'Psychotic' is the wrong word, but it does sound as if your daughter needs help now. It could make all the difference to her development.

It seems a pretty pointless rule that the GP won't do anything unless nursery has noticed a problem, but might someone at nursery be prepared to write to the GP if you tell them your concerns? They're there to help your child develop.

It must be so wearing fr you, you need and deserve some help.

Hardly psychotic behaviour. Your friend however is extremely judgemental and downright bloody rude.

I think the child knew exactly what she was doing by taking the brake off.

a slightly impulsive 3 year old? Really

Given that this is the DM posting, I'm guessing that everything is whitewashed for starters.

Dohee. What you think and reality are very different things. My own dd wouldn't understand the danger behind it, all she wants is the action and reaction from tne adult. She repears behaviours to get the same reactions as it's rewarding g to her. She still cannot see the dangerous possible consequences of her actions.

It doesn't matter what the consequences are, she will do it anyway. This evening they were in the bath and she filled a pot with cold water. I asked her to pour it in the bath and warned that if she tipped it on her siblings she'd be removed from the bath and miss out on pudding. She loves baths and wanted to stay in. She loved the pudding that was cooking. She still tried to throw the cold water in their faces and shows no emotion when I follow through on consequences.

If my friend was scared of her child being with a slightly impulsive 3 year old, I would suggest she sought help.
slightly impulsive?

She jumped from a high climbing frame with no guarantee she would be caught and took the brakes off her siblings pram potentially risking them rolling into the road? Slightly impulsive would be eating
some icing off the cake without permission not endangering their own and other lives!!

For example, she shouldn’t be climbing up the slide whether other kids are there or not
really??? Why?

I tend to overlook climbing up the slide if no-one else is there but if you have a child who doesn't seem to get boundaries then I agree with this. These kind of grey areas (it's ok when no-one else is there/ as a special treat/In the school.holidays) don't help such children to learn right from wrong.

HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed
Out of interest what would she have done if you had said,
"If your siblings get hit with cold water it will not feel nice for them and will make them feel sad"

My dd is 6 and NT and she also doesn't respond to these kind of threats but responds far better to appealing to the fact that I know she is a kind girl who wouldn't want to hurt/upset her siblings.

Yeah I would get a referral to. What she said wasn't nice, but impulsivity is a trait of psychopathy actually, and having a disregard for rules is too, but then most toddlers are like that so that part really means nothing yet. If it continues though, that's a bit more worrying.

Janet see above where if I warn her something's hot she will have to touch it to see. Saying throwing water would upset them would 100% encourage her to do it to see if that's true.

It sounds like you definitely need an assessment.

However if you are suspecting something like ADHD, I am surprised that you don't seem to think very clear black and white rules are necessary.

My eldest, who eventually turned out to have dyspraxia could not (cannot even now really) understand shades of grey in rules. So she would have been hopeless with 'you can climb up the slides if no one is around but not if there are people' kind of rules.

So I am thinking that, even though it goes against your instinct, some really clear rules that apply 100% of the time might help: e.g.

• no jumping onto people or animals
• no throwing in the house
• no eating anything that isn't food

You could reframe them positively

• we only jump onto non alive things
• we only throw in the park
• we only put food and drink in our mouths

And repeat ad nauseam, and in advance in situations where things might occur.

That wasn't an appropriate word to use, your friend should be trying to help you, you clearly have your hands full That's true, and it must be upsetting for OP. However, I've had a friend in the past whose child's behaviour was destructive and aggressive. She became immune to it, papered over it. Until the day he purposefully pushed my two year old down the stairs and we both witnessed it.

Fortunately my child was unhurt apart from some bruises. But in the shock and heat of the moment I had a few choice words for him.

Obviously, name calling is not helpful. However, it might shake up the parent into realising 'things are not right' and some intervention is needed NOW and not left until after some real irreversible damage is done.

I have to admit that I have no experience of this type of behaviour whatsoever, nor have I experience of ASD or anything else.

I am guessing that written down, this all appears a lot more unusual to you than it did before. And I'm also guessing that hearing what your friend thought must have shook you to your core.

I genuinely don't know what can be done for this type of child. Everyone is suggesting getting her assessed? Assessed for what exactly? What are deliberate acts of malice a symptom of?

zzzzz

Whats wrong with what I said?

Impulsivity is a psychopathy trait. And toddlers often don't care about doing something wrong. They learn right from wrong a bit later in development. I wouldn't be too concerned about that until they are older.

helen i see what you mean but was trying to establish her levels of empathy which aren't the same as the risk she takes with herself (I.e. touching something hot)

The examples you gave in your Op are concerning, the bath water example for me is fairly typical 3 year old defiance

They are not deliberate acts of malice. Childtrn/adults with autism sometimes cannot see danger in their actions. It's not delibrately and it's not malicious. You have said you have no undetstanding of these conditions so maybe you should educate yourself before commenting unhelpfully. An assessment with a pediatric team will assess over a period of months on different settings and look for various conditions.

HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed from what you recently said its more like she just doesn't believe you and wants to test it herself. But that's just going on what you said, I think a psychologist is still what you need.