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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse this sleepover - 13 year old

247 replies

secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 16:20

Namechanged for this, as don't want it linked to my posting history.

I have a 13 year old daughter (just turned 13). A year ago she moved schools, and has taken a while to settle in and establish a friendship group. So far so good, has been to some parties and has had sleepovers with a couple of her friends.

It's a bit of a minefield now she is older, but we insist on talking to parents first if she is having a sleepover and take her to the house so we can meet the parents (and establish that they are there!). This may seem a bit heavy handed, but I have a 22 year old, so have grown a bit wise and suspicious..... my daughter objects to this, as she feels it makes her "babyish", but at the same time she understands we are making sure she's safe.

She has a friend in her group who is a trans boy (FtM), who goes by a boy's name at school, and insists on pronouns him/his/he, let's call him James. James' friendship group is all girls.

My daughter has now asked to go to James' birthday party and join in with a sleepover at James' house, as two of her other friends are going. After asking, all of them are going to be sleeping in James' room on blow up beds. I have said no, as I would not let her sleep at a boy's house on a sleepover, and as James is identifying as a boy, I will treat him as such. My daughter said "oh but James isn't really a boy, he just thinks she is, so why can't I sleepover? You let me sleep over at girl friends, what if they were lesbians?" This is causing no end of arguments, and I do feel sorry for James if this is going to impact on the birthday celebrations, but to me if James is identifying as a boy, then I should be treating him as a boy in all aspects.

I have offered the compromise of attending the party until 10.30pm and then I will pick her up, but apparently the sleepover is the best bit, and I am just doing this to be mean.....

My older child was a boy, and whilst we had similar sleepover issues, we haven't any experience of transgender friends in this scenario.

Do you think I am being unreasonable?

OP posts:
Houseonahill · 20/02/2019 16:24

Yes I think you are.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 16:25

So you would let your 13 year old daughter sleepover in a boys bedroom?

OP posts:
eyeswideshit · 20/02/2019 16:27

Would you let her go to a mtf transgender friends sleepover? I think your answer to that will tell you whether you're being unreasonable or not.

Sleepthiefismyfavourite · 20/02/2019 16:31

In this case yes, they are only 13 and essentially your dd is right

BarbarianMum · 20/02/2019 16:32

You say you wouldn't let her sleepover w a boy but you're ok w girls. Why exactly? And how does this relate to James?

Loftyswops988 · 20/02/2019 16:32

YABU. I see where you are coming from but at the same time you're wrong to isolate James. They are just a bunch of 13 year old friends. I am gay, does that mean my friends should have not been allowed to have sleepovers with me in case I was sexually attracted to them? If she was staying with James as a boyfriend then yes perhaps but other than that YABU

cheeseypuff · 20/02/2019 16:32

eyeswideshit I don't think that's very fair to the OP.
I'm inclined to think the transgender thing is clouding the issue here.
You're not comfortable with your daughter sleeping over in a boy's room at age 13 which is fair enough.
"James" is identifying as a boy, it follows he therefore should be treated as a boy.Therefore your daughter can't go to his sleepover.

Could she go & sleep in a spare room as a compromise or is that not an option? Would that make you feel ok about it?

recrudescence · 20/02/2019 16:32

I think you are being too rigid in your thinking. Let your daughter go and tell her to have fun. (BTW she makes a very strong point when she asks “what if they were lesbians?”)

PalmTree101 · 20/02/2019 16:33

She has a point. If she was a lesbian woudl you let her go to female sleep overs?

VioletCharlotte · 20/02/2019 16:33

I think yabu. I wouldn't let a 13 year old girl share a room with a boy because there's a chance something could happen and she could end up pregnant. That's obviously not going to happen here. Yes, stuff could happen, but as your DD says, that's just the same as if one of the girls was a lesbian.

This is a, probably very mixed up, 13 year old child we're talking about. I think it's great that your DD and her friends are so inclusive and accepting.

FWIW, my one of my DS best friends is FtM and he and lots of other male and female friends stay at their house regularly.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 16:35

Good point eyeswideshit - I would need to consider that depending on whether I’d met the young person or not, as I do most of her sleepovers.

Regardless of the trans issue, I suppose at some age you aren’t going to know the person they are staying with - I just feel 13 is still too young.

OP posts:
Elmo230885 · 20/02/2019 16:35

What do you think is going to happen? I'm not sure what the actually worry is.

JellySlice · 20/02/2019 16:36

'James' is not going to rape your dd nor impregnate her - the only reasons to avoid mixed-sex sleeping.

'James' should be treated just the same as any other gender non-conforming girl.

sweatybettee · 20/02/2019 16:36

We segregate by biographical sex for safety, not by gender identity or sexuality, so I wouldn't worry tbh.

ForgivenessIsDivine · 20/02/2019 16:36

Your reason for objecting to this sleepover is unreasonable. Introduce yourself to the parents and then see how you feel.

sweatybettee · 20/02/2019 16:37

*biological!

ThreeAnkleBiters · 20/02/2019 16:37

Would you let her go to a mtf transgender friends sleepover? I think your answer to that will tell you whether you're being unreasonable or not.

Exactly. I bet you wouldn't be happy in this case so I think YABU. As much as I would respect the pronouns anyone wanted to be referred to many young people feel gender confusion as teenagers and don't end up as a trans adult. In any case they're all 13 and not romantically involved so I don't think it's an issue. I'm dubious if this is even a real problem to be honest - probably just an excuse for another trans bashing thread.

ShawshanksRedemption · 20/02/2019 16:37

I have a daughter a year older and this has come up.

She has questioned why I would be OK with girls, but not boys. My reasoning was at the end of the day, girls can't get you pregnant. So I would be OK with F to M but there would need to be rules in place, like bedroom door kept open, separate beds. She then said as she was gay it wouldn't be an issue and it's the girls I'd need to be more concerned over. Again I said, but they can't get you pregnant - but door open, separate beds etc etc.

I guess I then came to the same conclusion, that whoever it was staying over, I'd have the same rules in place!

Redglitter · 20/02/2019 16:38

James is biologically a female. The general reason people dont want mixed sleepovers is incase something sexual happens. Once theyre in their pjs hes no different to them. He may identify as a boy but he's not biologically so theres a big difference.

As pp said if one of your daughters friends was gay would you stop her going to sleepovers with her

GatherlyGal · 20/02/2019 16:38

As the parent of a ftm teenager I agree it is a minefield! Also the lines of friend / girlfriend / boyfriend seems a bit more blurred to me than when I was a kid.

I did not allow my DS to have a sleepover with a boy which caused an argument as DS said "but I'm a boy too". DS has many sleepovers with girls which neither I nor the other parents mind at all. I work on the basis that whatever the identity the body is the body and male and female teen bodies in the same place over night are best avoided in my opinion.

LynetteScavo · 20/02/2019 16:38

I think you can say no to your 13yo having a sleepover anywhere for any reason. Your DD may argue with you and tell you you're unreasonable but sometimes you have to go with your gut.
Fur what it's worth, from what you've posted I probably would let her go, but I don't know your DD or James.

RhiWrites · 20/02/2019 16:39

I think your daughter makes a good point about her female friends might be lesbians (or bisexual), what was your response to that?

DoraBastable · 20/02/2019 16:40

I wouldn't let my 13 year old daughter sleep overnight in a boys room because men and boys sexually assault, rape, and coerce women and girls into sexual activity, especially in vulnerable situations such as sleeping / undressing in the same room. I'd also be worried about my daughter exploring sexual feelings she might have and ending up pregnant.

These situations of rape, assault or coercion are very unlikely to happen with a lesbian friend or a TIF, and the pregnancy part is impossible.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 16:41

Yes the point she made about lesbians is valid which is why I posted on here for opinions - I don’t really have any friends with similar age girls in RL to talk this through with.

I agree that this is a mixed up young person, and I want to be inclusive and respect their choices which is why I felt that I should treat them as a boy in all aspects - including that I wouldn’t let my daughter stay at a boys house in their bedroom. I haven’t said she can’t go to the party, just that she can’t sleep over - we have stipulated that before for female friends also that we have said she can’t sleep over at.

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 20/02/2019 16:45

This would be an interesting question for the people who insist that “trans women are women”.