To refuse this sleepover - 13 year old

[secretsquirrelthethird]

Namechanged for this, as don't want it linked to my posting history.

I have a 13 year old daughter (just turned 13). A year ago she moved schools, and has taken a while to settle in and establish a friendship group. So far so good, has been to some parties and has had sleepovers with a couple of her friends.

It's a bit of a minefield now she is older, but we insist on talking to parents first if she is having a sleepover and take her to the house so we can meet the parents (and establish that they are there!). This may seem a bit heavy handed, but I have a 22 year old, so have grown a bit wise and suspicious..... my daughter objects to this, as she feels it makes her "babyish", but at the same time she understands we are making sure she's safe.

She has a friend in her group who is a trans boy (FtM), who goes by a boy's name at school, and insists on pronouns him/his/he, let's call him James. James' friendship group is all girls.

My daughter has now asked to go to James' birthday party and join in with a sleepover at James' house, as two of her other friends are going. After asking, all of them are going to be sleeping in James' room on blow up beds. I have said no, as I would not let her sleep at a boy's house on a sleepover, and as James is identifying as a boy, I will treat him as such. My daughter said "oh but James isn't really a boy, he just thinks she is, so why can't I sleepover? You let me sleep over at girl friends, what if they were lesbians?" This is causing no end of arguments, and I do feel sorry for James if this is going to impact on the birthday celebrations, but to me if James is identifying as a boy, then I should be treating him as a boy in all aspects.

I have offered the compromise of attending the party until 10.30pm and then I will pick her up, but apparently the sleepover is the best bit, and I am just doing this to be mean.....

My older child was a boy, and whilst we had similar sleepover issues, we haven't any experience of transgender friends in this scenario.

Do you think I am being unreasonable?

and that is why I have told my kid that I will allow visiting others but no sleepovers. Then it's just one argument instead of arguing about every single person you refuse to allow a sleepover with.

why doesn’t that make James a heterosexual girl who doesn’t want to present in a feminine way?

Why indeed .

mathanxiety is advocating a permissive parenting style of letting my daughter do anything she wants with anyone she wants, and to not tell me where she is overnight and take her own risks.

No I'm not, actually, and I honestly don't know where you got that from my posts.

I am advocating not trying to swim with one foot on the bottom here.

What I am saying is, either piss or get off the pot. You have expressed negative opinions of sleepovers in general, which I hope you haven't shared with DD. If you truly and sincerely hate sleepovers and each invitation fills you with dread, then stop them altogether. If you are willing to allow them under certain conditions then stop being so negative (if you are negative in your DD's presence or if you force her into a position of arguing or pleading every time a sleepover comes up then stop this).

Negativity on the part of a parent about entire areas of a teen's social life leads to teens being unwilling to ask for you to come and rescue them from a situation that has got out of hand.

Teens are put off asking for help from a parent with a negative approach to parties, sleepovers, etc because they can fear that the parent will panic and put a stop to their social life in its entirety if something goes tits up.

I am talking about managed risks and about the development of trust - having a code your DD can use if she finds herself in a situation that she doesn't feel comfortable with. You getting relevant information (addresses for instance) from your DD or the answer to the sleepover request is no. Though getting an address doesn't mean the parents won't be shitfaced by 10.30...

Is your DD likely to go off drinking with an older man? If so, why? If not, why not?
You have it in your power to teach her to avoid situations like this and to encourage her to talk to you about stuff like this that goes on among her peers. She won't confide in you if she feels your response will be ott in any way.

I live in an affluent area where many of the parents have a very 'cool' and relaxed attitude to pot and other substances. It is a stone's throw away from an area of a neighbouring big city where open air drug sales, prostitution and shootings happen 24/7. Kids here learn to drive at 16 and many have their own cars at that point. Then at 18 they all head off to universities where partying and heavy/binge drinking and substance abuse are the norm. If you don't cut your teeth socially by 16 you are like a lamb to the slaughter. It is really important for teens where I live to learn that they can trust their parents, and for parents not to squander those lines of communication.

*@Mathanxiety

You have accused me of ranting, going in with “all guns blazing”, restricting my daughter’s social development and negating my previous experiences as staring down a rabbit hole... you are very rude in fact, and from what I can gather you live in an “affluent area” in the USA which is poles apart from the area I live, and your parenting does not transfer to her. Unlike your wealthy neighbours I do not have a cool and relaxed attitude to pot and other substances as I work with young adults and know where it can lead. I have a realistic informed attitude.

You have surmised a huge amount of information from my parenting by the fact I don’t like sleepovers - no I don’t, they’re a pain in the arse whether away from the home or being hosted, just what is there to like? Thst doesn’t mean I make it known to my daughter and refuse to let her participate or have friends over herself - after all she likes it, I did when I was younger, why should my dislike stop her enjoying herself?

You have further surmised that I don’t trust my daughter, that her social life is severely restricted, she hides things from me and I am harming her development by putting in basic safeguarding rules such as knowing where she is and whether adults are going to be present. You could not be further from the mark.

You appear to have a right bee in your bonnet, perhaps you should go and smoke some weed with your cool and relaxed attitude and chill out.

Yanbu at all.

op don't worry about it too much. I kept a close eye on dd1, she's flown to Milan today with her girlfriends. She's now 23. Enjoying life and no hang ups!

Kids needs boundaries.

I fucking hate sleepovers. I thought everyone did!
Also, this whole thing about teaching your kids and trusting them. It SO depends, both on the child and on the peers. And just gone 13 isn't 15 or 16.
A lot if parents seem to think if they go hands off and are cool with stuff their teens won't hide things or ask for help, but I'm not sure. I have been in that situation with mine ( and I'm not cool with weed etc) but as long as they know you are always going to help them they will come to you.

Your post is interesting Frequency, with Alan in the men's t shirt. It made me laugh that she chose "Alan" it's such a grandad name

You have expressed negative opinions of sleepovers in general, which I hope you haven't shared with DD.

😂😂😂

Why on earth shouldn't a mother say if she doesn't like sleepovers? Are we supposed to be martyrs who never have an opinion, and never lay down any rules? The one time I was persuaded to give in and allow one it ended in disaster, DD2 bullied and in tears in her own bed while the rest of the group had a lovely time in our sitting room, they sneaked out at 4 or 5am, and were dragged back by the police to my immense embarrassment.

Juells you win I’ve not had the police come to any sleepovers to return errant sleepoverees (yet).

They are bloody awful aren’t they, but are the worst when they all fall out or exclude one person - I guess st Maths house they would just slip off in their car and skin up a big doobie with a cool and relaxed attitude. The mornings after are vile too, they are all tired and stroppy and hang around till after lunch mooning around like over made up zombies.

I also laughed at the Alan moniker

Yep I was the type to sneak off at 4am. I tried being the cool mum with dd1 when she was 16 but I found out she was going to raves and taking drugs. She got grounded for an entire year.

No harm done. She's a fantastic independent woman now.

Why on earth shouldn't a mother say if she doesn't like sleepovers? Are we supposed to be martyrs who never have an opinion, and never lay down any rules?
Juells

There's a difference between laying down rules and voicing opinions on sleepovers in general.

Parents of teens are well advised to do a good deal of tongue biting and lots of listening instead of shooting from the lip.

I don’t like sleepovers - no I don’t, they’re a pain in the arse whether away from the home or being hosted, just what is there to like?
SecretSquirrel

You get to see your children's friends 'in action' as a group. You get to hear their conversation among themselves. You get to chat with them. You get a real feel for the sort of people they are. I don't see a negative. I am a great fan of talking to and with teens, as opposed to talking at them or preaching.

Your suggestion that teens in the US are any different as individual people from teens elsewhere is ludicrous.

You should try to understand the difference between expressing concern over potential outcomes of certain approaches and 'surmising' that certain stuff is happening here and now.

@mathanxiety

Over invested much?

I’m not saying USA teens are different - I was saying our neighbourhoods are different and clearly your children Have a different lifestyle to mine if driving at 16 and going to uni is a given.

You did surmise - you need to learn the difference between being smug, rude and patronising to being realistic. I worry about the potential outcome of your children’s future substance use.

And as for your reasons for liking sleepovers- you really hang around your kids friends and listen in to their convos when they are over? Mine would be mortified - that’s even more embarrassing than the basic stuff I do

You have a real talent for getting the wrong end of the stick.

from what I can gather you live in an “affluent area” in the USA which is poles apart from the area I live, and your parenting does not transfer to her.

Why wouldn't my parenting style transfer to a British teen?
Teens are teens are teens.

I didn't say my children had cars at 16.
I didn't say I have a relaxed attitude to drugs. I wasn't boasting about the 'cool' parents of my DCs' peers .

My DCs faced a world where they could be miles from the stated address of a party or sleepover in 20 minutes. I could either trust them to contact me to pick them up if they didn't like the way a party or sleepover was heading or I could dig in and give them a curfew of 8 pm, in which case they would learn nothing about how to conduct themselves when away from home in university (or when socialising with friends from work, etc).

No need to worry about my DCs' future drug use - as I said they are aged 17 to 28 now - and they are solid citizens.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

So patronising manx have a day off.

I think Manx is a councillor or I may be thinking of an other poster.

Yawn

@mathanxiety even if I had access to the Hubble telescope the fuck I give would not be visible.

Let her go, when she's 16/17 and you're tearing your hair out with worry over boyfriends, you'll wonder why you made such a big deal out of this at 13.

@bubblegumbottles
Yes but she is not 16/17 yet is she? This time last month she was 12, and as such I am still held responsible by agencies should anything adverse happen.

Besides which, the issue here is not the actual fact she goes to sleepovers, but trying to navigate the trans situation fairly whilst respecting the friend’s identity.

This is all very confusing. With younger dc I think we might just skip the sleepovers altogether

Yes, you are indeed confusing me with someone else, Motherofcreek.

Maybe someone actually named Manx.