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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse this sleepover - 13 year old

247 replies

secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 16:20

Namechanged for this, as don't want it linked to my posting history.

I have a 13 year old daughter (just turned 13). A year ago she moved schools, and has taken a while to settle in and establish a friendship group. So far so good, has been to some parties and has had sleepovers with a couple of her friends.

It's a bit of a minefield now she is older, but we insist on talking to parents first if she is having a sleepover and take her to the house so we can meet the parents (and establish that they are there!). This may seem a bit heavy handed, but I have a 22 year old, so have grown a bit wise and suspicious..... my daughter objects to this, as she feels it makes her "babyish", but at the same time she understands we are making sure she's safe.

She has a friend in her group who is a trans boy (FtM), who goes by a boy's name at school, and insists on pronouns him/his/he, let's call him James. James' friendship group is all girls.

My daughter has now asked to go to James' birthday party and join in with a sleepover at James' house, as two of her other friends are going. After asking, all of them are going to be sleeping in James' room on blow up beds. I have said no, as I would not let her sleep at a boy's house on a sleepover, and as James is identifying as a boy, I will treat him as such. My daughter said "oh but James isn't really a boy, he just thinks she is, so why can't I sleepover? You let me sleep over at girl friends, what if they were lesbians?" This is causing no end of arguments, and I do feel sorry for James if this is going to impact on the birthday celebrations, but to me if James is identifying as a boy, then I should be treating him as a boy in all aspects.

I have offered the compromise of attending the party until 10.30pm and then I will pick her up, but apparently the sleepover is the best bit, and I am just doing this to be mean.....

My older child was a boy, and whilst we had similar sleepover issues, we haven't any experience of transgender friends in this scenario.

Do you think I am being unreasonable?

OP posts:
LilQueenie · 20/02/2019 22:18

on the other hand why if they can be friend at all those things, why not include sleepovers.

maddiemookins16mum · 20/02/2019 22:24

I think you’re using the trans thing as an excuse because you’re really not keen on sleepovers full stop (point in question being the visiting beforehand).
‘James’ cannot hurt your daughter. Don’t be that person who unintentionally hurts James in the long run, it’s his birthday.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 22:32

I guess it’s not just sex, but some parents think nothing of letting their kids walk around town until the early hours, go out and let their kids have access to alcohol/cigs, have lots of visitors to the home they don’t know that well, have domestic incidents in front of the kids, parents get very drunk etc etc - if you are letting your child stay somewhere with a family overnight then they are likely to exposed to these things. Of course you can’t tell much if you only meet them briefly but you can get some idea/gut feeling of the set up.

At a mixed sex sleepover the potential for sex is vastly increased - perhaps my daughter is too young to know how to get out of a situation like that or may feel forced to go along with something.

I wouldn’t just leave my insured car overnight somewhere that I didn’t know, or where it could get damaged why would I leave my daughter, who is irreplaceable somewhere that I don’t know, or where she could he likely to be in a situation she is not mature enough to handle - after all two weeks ago she was only 12......

I don’t think I am being over protective, she just has boundaries to keep her safe, which will be changed as she gets older and more confident at dealing with tricky situations.

OP posts:
Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 22:36

maddiemookins16mum

No, I don’t like sleepovers - not least because you have to host them as well.

I am amazed people think it’s weird meeting the parents who will be having your child in their house overnight - are you saying your young teen child can say to you “I am staying at overnight, possibly don’t even know their address and you are ok with that? Really?

OP posts:
Dutch1e · 20/02/2019 22:52

secretsquirrelthethird thank you for the well-thought through response. I take your point.

SleepingStandingUp · 21/02/2019 00:10

OP I think you sound like a great Mum. Of course it isn't OK to let children sleep over random people's houses who you've never met and possibly don't even know the address of. Of course meeting the parents nad parents saying yes, they're all sleeping here tonight makes it less likely they've all told their parent a different place and they're actually getting drunk in a tent in the woods!

mathanxiety · 21/02/2019 01:27

How will she become mature enough to handle situations without a little exposure?

You can't let someone out to sleepovers, etc at 15-16-17 when they have had no experience dealing with situations at 12-13-14. The way to learn to swim - so to speak - is to get in and swim. There is no safe alternative.

Teens get good at assessing situations, and trust grows between parents and teens when you let them out a bit and assure them that you are available to come and pick them up very discreetly if they contact you, on the basis that there will be 'no questions asked'.

Trust works both ways. You have to start building it with teens in small increments. Approaching situations with all guns blazing or ranting about stuff you don't agree with will cause a teen to stop confiding in you and even to sneak around behind your back.

mathanxiety · 21/02/2019 01:32

The way to find out an address is surely to ask the child?

When your child heads off to secondary school they will be mixing with people you do not know at all. At this point, you need to start working on your level of trust when it comes to your DD, to up your game when it comes to conversations about her life (listen, listen, listen) and to try to get past the many fears that can hold parents in their grip at this age.

Do you have so little confidence in your daughter's ability to size people up, in her ability to assess their capacity for mischief, in her sense of self preservation that you could not trust her at all to pick friends who share many of your family's values?

TwoShades1 · 21/02/2019 01:54

I think a better logic to apply would be penises and vaginas don’t share a room at sleepovers. How someone identifies if very different to their capacity to impregnate someone.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 21/02/2019 06:42

@mathanxiety

Have you bought up a teenager?
The reason I ask is your comment - ask them for the addresss LOL which goes something like this....
Me: where do they live?
Dd: at
Me: what road?
Dd: I don’t know.

Who is ranting or all guns blazing? My child’s boundaries change with age and st present are entirely age appropriate for a 12/13 year old. Boundaries are constantly changing as she matures, as they did with my older child, and I find your post incredibly patronising.

You mention risk - teenagers are poor at assessing risk / making decisions due to their brain and the prefrontal cortex still developing during adolescence. You have no idea of the maturity of my daughter, her history, where we live etc. but seem determined to want me to let her do what she wants / go where she wants / to not be bothered where she is.

Your type of laissez-faire parenting could put a child at risk of child sexual exploitation, grooming, risk taking behaviour and harm from others to name but a few.

Consider this - my child is staying at someone’s house and something adverse happens and the police are called, I get called to collect my child, the police ask me was I aware she was staying at this address, I say no, she just told me she was staying at a friends, I had no idea where she was or who she was with m - social services would be involved as not knowing where your 13 year old daughter is, or —-letting her do whatever she wants— letting her learn by taking risks is a safeguarding issue.

This thread was not about my parenting or boundaries I am setting - I am very confident with the boundaries I have set, I am parenting appropriately for her age thanks and have an older child so this isn’t new to me. This thread was about a situation that is new to me, and as others have said I was perhaps trying to be too PC, so that decision should be changed. I won’t be changing the other rules around sleepovers yet.

OP posts:
blueskiesovertheforest · 21/02/2019 06:51

Dutch1e sleeping in someone's bedroom with them is not normally a prerequisite to being able to get on with/ be friends with someone at all though!

SD1978 · 21/02/2019 06:55

Hard one- I see your point, but if the situation was reversed, would you allow her to sleep at 'Stacey's' house who used to be Simon? I suspect the answer is no, so you need to decide if it's biological sex or assumed and decided on gender that you will segregate sleep overs on. I'd rather segregate on sex not a made up construct, but would also be a tad wary due to ROGD appearing to be a 'group think' issue which I'd be wary about exposing any child to.

MonsterKidz · 21/02/2019 07:03

Hi OP,

Gosh what a minefield!

I completely agreed with you.

Then I read all the comments
And I may have changed my mind...

sailorsdelight · 21/02/2019 07:21

I think YABU here, you’re daughter has a friend who is gender none conforming and in the very early day’s of being trans. Your daughter isn’t in danger. The child may decide to remain a girl/woman, may be gay, may be straight. Would you let your daughter have a sleepover with a gay male friend with other girls? I know I would.
Treating James as you would any other boy really doesn’t seem fair as he isn’t just any other boy so I would take that into account.

Damntheman · 21/02/2019 07:37

You're being unreasonable, I see your logic but it's unreasonable :) Perhaps more concerning though is your daughter's attitude, you need to have a serious talk with her about "James isn't a real boy", she could seriously hurt his mental health with comments like that.

Juells · 21/02/2019 07:54

"James isn't a real boy", she could seriously hurt his mental health with comments like that.

James mental health is already damaged if James believes that James is a boy when James is in fact a girl. The OP's daughter has a grasp of reality, why on earth is she supposed to pretend a lie? If her friend was anoerexic would she be expected to say "Oh yes, you're fat. Very very fat."

Jamiefraserskilt · 21/02/2019 08:04

James is biologically a female. There are other girls there in the same room at the same time. I would have no issue with this.

blueskiesovertheforest · 21/02/2019 08:35

Damntheman that logic wouldn't work in any other context, why in this one?
If James believed George Ezra or Ariana Grande was madly in love with James and they were destined to be together, if James believed James was a reincarnation of Jesus, if James believed that aliens were listening to James's thoughts, if James believed James had a life limiting medical condition and needed to live and be treated accordingly despite medical evidence to the contrary, if James believed James were 3 years old not 13...

Loughers · 21/02/2019 08:42

It really is very very simple.

Would you allow your 13 year old daughter to have a sleepover
in the same room as a 13 year old boy?

For any responsible parent the answer is clearly "no".

Ignore the outraged liberals......

Damntheman · 21/02/2019 08:45

I have no interest in debating with transphobes.

Trans issues are real and these people need protecting and help as they transition into what their brain chemistry has dictated they were meant to be.

blueskiesovertheforest · 21/02/2019 08:45

Loughers it's the other way around because James doesn't have a penis and has the body James was born with - a girl's body. James is a natal female.

Natal sex is relevant to sleeping arrangements, not gender identity.

Juells · 21/02/2019 08:49

For any responsible parent the answer is clearly "no".

I honestly wonder if some posters on MN were ever teenagers Confused

Never mind 'teenager', I started smoking at 12 because a friend's parents owned a pub, and she was able to steal cigarettes. We smoked them because they were there, for no other reason. It was just lucky that she didn't think of stealing booze, or we'd have been drinking that as well. God knows what we'd have got up to if we'd had a sleepover with boys, sanctioned by our parents.

SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 08:51

I have no interest in debating with transphobes - and yet you say the OP is unreasonable to treat James as a boy by not allowing the sleepover?

Trans issues are real and these people need protecting and help as they transition into what their brain chemistry has dictated they were meant to be can you clarify what you mean by brain chemistry?

Juells · 21/02/2019 08:52

They have a blue brain in a pink body :( :( :( :(

blueskiesovertheforest · 21/02/2019 08:53

Damntheman brain chemistry and environmental factors often cause things to go awry in adolescents. Its not always in their best interests to insist everyone affirm everything a 13 year old believes at all times, uncritically and to police the thoughts of their friends to ensure they don't questio or doubt anything.