Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse this sleepover - 13 year old

247 replies

secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 16:20

Namechanged for this, as don't want it linked to my posting history.

I have a 13 year old daughter (just turned 13). A year ago she moved schools, and has taken a while to settle in and establish a friendship group. So far so good, has been to some parties and has had sleepovers with a couple of her friends.

It's a bit of a minefield now she is older, but we insist on talking to parents first if she is having a sleepover and take her to the house so we can meet the parents (and establish that they are there!). This may seem a bit heavy handed, but I have a 22 year old, so have grown a bit wise and suspicious..... my daughter objects to this, as she feels it makes her "babyish", but at the same time she understands we are making sure she's safe.

She has a friend in her group who is a trans boy (FtM), who goes by a boy's name at school, and insists on pronouns him/his/he, let's call him James. James' friendship group is all girls.

My daughter has now asked to go to James' birthday party and join in with a sleepover at James' house, as two of her other friends are going. After asking, all of them are going to be sleeping in James' room on blow up beds. I have said no, as I would not let her sleep at a boy's house on a sleepover, and as James is identifying as a boy, I will treat him as such. My daughter said "oh but James isn't really a boy, he just thinks she is, so why can't I sleepover? You let me sleep over at girl friends, what if they were lesbians?" This is causing no end of arguments, and I do feel sorry for James if this is going to impact on the birthday celebrations, but to me if James is identifying as a boy, then I should be treating him as a boy in all aspects.

I have offered the compromise of attending the party until 10.30pm and then I will pick her up, but apparently the sleepover is the best bit, and I am just doing this to be mean.....

My older child was a boy, and whilst we had similar sleepover issues, we haven't any experience of transgender friends in this scenario.

Do you think I am being unreasonable?

OP posts:
Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 17:06

Natal sex is what matters for mixed sleepovers unless you are going to ask everyone about sexual orientation!

Gosh, now wouldn’t that embarrass her Grin

To the poster above who hates sleepovers - amen to that, I also hate the bloody things, and also the tired out stroppiness of the next day.....

OP posts:
Somethingsmellsnice · 20/02/2019 17:10

It is very much more a thkngbthese days for mixed sleepovers. Things have even changed in the 10 years between my oldest and youngest. Trust your DD.

Springwalk · 20/02/2019 17:10

My dd is 13 and too don’t allow sleepovers without meeting the families. My line of work makes me much more careful, that and a predatory father at a sleepover aged 11.
However I would allow this,
Your dd is safe and can not be raped or have sex. It will also look as if you are rejecting the trans child due to a gender change, and that is bound to have very negative consequences.

I think your dd will be perfectly safe, and if she is going to experiment with her sexuality (not saying she will) then she doesn’t need a sleepover to do that does she?

Let her go op

Somethingsmellsnice · 20/02/2019 17:10

*Thing these

CaptainCabinets · 20/02/2019 17:13

You’re being petty and horrible. James is the same kid she’s known for however long, can you explain how you think his gender identity changes their friendship?

Springwalk · 20/02/2019 17:14

I hate sleepovers too, exhausting!

Bluetrews25 · 20/02/2019 17:14

I'd let her go. They have all been friends for some time, the only thing that has changed is the clothing and name preferred by this individual. All of his friends are girls - what if they all said no, that would be so sad for him at what must be an uncertain time.
You are also assuming he would want to have sex with your daughter if he had a functioning penis. That's a bit like homophobic men assuming that any gay man would be unable to keep his hands off them simply because they are also men. A bit presumptuous?
But basically, you want to keep your teenage daughter pregnancy-free. Fair enough. I assume she knows how to avoid this, and as you already know, this is not physically possible even if full surgery had already been completed.
Please don't make life any more difficult or unpleasant for this young person and let your daughter go.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 17:17

I am attempting to treat the trans child as I would any child of their identified gender not reject them, I can see what you mean though and it would really upset me to think they would see my decision as rejection rather than validation of their choices.

OP posts:
Meandmetoo · 20/02/2019 17:17

I wouldn't let my dd sleepover at a boys house but I'd be fine with a sleepover at James.

Teakind · 20/02/2019 17:18

I think you are being unreasonable here but I do understand the hesitation as it's a situation that hasn't arisen for you before. It will put your daughter in a really difficult position of explaining why she can't go and risks upsetting 'James'. I think your daughter and her friends sound wonderfully inclusive and open minded.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 17:18

James has presented as a boy before my daughter met him a year ago at her new school, she has never known James as a girl.

OP posts:
SpanielEars070 · 20/02/2019 17:20

You're right to meet the parents - we had a nightmare once of getting DD (12) from a friends house we hadn't met as the Mum had gone out and still hadn't come home by 3am. I had to bring them both back, and it was early afternoon the next day before the Mum rang her DD to find out where she was............. needless to say we were a lot stricter from then on.

Springwalk · 20/02/2019 17:21

Just because she is a boy for the moment does not nessarily mean she will stay that way. He/she is just 13 and has a long way to go. It may be just experimenting.
I would respect the gender change as you have done, but I would acknowledge with dd he isn’t biologically a boy (yet) and therefore deserves special sleepover status 🙂

CaptainCabinets · 20/02/2019 17:22

Okay, but can you also explain what exactly it is you’re scared of? I don’t buy the ‘treating him as a biological male’ excuse. All you’ll do is alienate your DD from her friends if they find out why she’s not allowed to attend the sleepover.

Springwalk · 20/02/2019 17:23

I have messed up my he’s and she’s in the last post

mathanxiety · 20/02/2019 17:24

James is a girl underneath it all, so YABU. It's sex that matters, not 'gender'.

You didn't ask, but YA also B a bit U to make such a song and dance about introducing yourself to parents and checking them all out before sleepovers too. If your DD has a phone and if you have some sort of safe text code for 'Come and get me' then she will be ok. Do you trust your DD? Because no amount of checking parents out will make a difference if your DD is not trustworthy.

Sleepovers can be a pita but I hope this isn't a running battle between you and your D. Take a deep breath, relax, and don't be a Grinch when it comes to your DD's social life.

MiniEggAddiction · 20/02/2019 17:27

The label given to James's gender surely isn't your concern. That's for James and probably his parents and doctors to discuss. Your concern is the safety of your DD. What about James makes you concerned your DD would be unsafe sleeping over there? Hypothetically If your DD had slept over at James's house when he identified as a girl would you suddenly stop sleepovers when he began transitioning?

Yabbers · 20/02/2019 17:30

I don’t think this is the time to be making such a petty point.

What is the risk to DD? Why not start there and make an informed decision. Your 13 year old seems to have a better grasp of this than you do.

Redglitter · 20/02/2019 17:33

I am attempting to treat the trans child as I would any child of their identified gender

And thats a really nice thing to do. BUT really, there are times when a bit of discretion goes a long way. Your arguments against the sleepover sound more like youre trying to make a point

spudlet7 · 20/02/2019 17:34

I understand your point but you are working according to your principles rather than the reality of the situation. You're saying 'James wants to be treated like a boy and that is what I am doing' which is true, but the reality is that none of the reasons for not having a sleepover with a boy stand here. Your daughter is not in any possible danger from said boy. So you're not being unreasonable as such, but you're stopping her going for the wrong reasons.

Motherofcreek · 20/02/2019 17:37

From experience kids can tell fibs when staying out. I was a nightmare! Used to sleep out on the local park when I was 13/14 with my mates Shock

My eldest was sneaking out to nightclubs when staying at her mates.

So yes when my youngest two start wanting to sleep out I'll be speaking to the other parents Grin

MiniEggAddiction · 20/02/2019 17:37

I disagree that OP is wrong to check out the parents though. Even a trust worthy 13 year old might feel unable to call or text her parents if she feels uncomfortable as she'd be worried about the repercussions in her friendship or might feel intimidated. A thirteen year isn't an adult and if someone else is going to be responsible for her overnight I'd want to know that person was responsible.

GlitterStick · 20/02/2019 17:38

Do you think I am being unreasonable?

Yes, YABU. If you usually let her go to sleepovers, why not this one? What's the reasoning behind it? It comes across as "because, trans" - I mean, it can't be because pregnancy or anything, can it if she's female to male.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 17:39

CaptainCabinets well if I think about it, it is that I am worried about sexual assault / pregnancy which is ridiculous given James sex.

Mathanxiety you may be happy letting your daughter who has only just turned 13 to sleep at any random house without knowing where it is or who lives there, but I am not. This is a direct result of an experience I had with being this lax about my son, so I will continue to make a song and dance, be a protective parent and safeguard my daughter in this way for a while longer thanks.

OP posts:
Missingstreetlife · 20/02/2019 17:41

Sorry, it's not just about getting pregnant, otherwise we would just put all girls on the pill and not worry about rape (as used to happen, disgracefully to girls with ld) it's also that young men are full of testosterone, not very subtle, subject to all sorts of porn and socialisation which may make them be, like adult men, predatory. Unlikely to be an issue in same sex sleepovers, even if gay, so long as similar ages. Not that bullying can't take place anywhere.
I agree that boundaries are more blurred and unfortunately we need to be teaching girls to protect themselves. Getting in bed with boys is not asking for it, tho it may be, but some boys are likely to think it is, so better not to. I think James is probably not a risk but do meet him and the family and enquire what safeguards are in place