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Original poster

To refuse this sleepover - 13 year old

247 replies

secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 16:20

Namechanged for this, as don't want it linked to my posting history.

I have a 13 year old daughter (just turned 13). A year ago she moved schools, and has taken a while to settle in and establish a friendship group. So far so good, has been to some parties and has had sleepovers with a couple of her friends.

It's a bit of a minefield now she is older, but we insist on talking to parents first if she is having a sleepover and take her to the house so we can meet the parents (and establish that they are there!). This may seem a bit heavy handed, but I have a 22 year old, so have grown a bit wise and suspicious..... my daughter objects to this, as she feels it makes her "babyish", but at the same time she understands we are making sure she's safe.

She has a friend in her group who is a trans boy (FtM), who goes by a boy's name at school, and insists on pronouns him/his/he, let's call him James. James' friendship group is all girls.

My daughter has now asked to go to James' birthday party and join in with a sleepover at James' house, as two of her other friends are going. After asking, all of them are going to be sleeping in James' room on blow up beds. I have said no, as I would not let her sleep at a boy's house on a sleepover, and as James is identifying as a boy, I will treat him as such. My daughter said "oh but James isn't really a boy, he just thinks she is, so why can't I sleepover? You let me sleep over at girl friends, what if they were lesbians?" This is causing no end of arguments, and I do feel sorry for James if this is going to impact on the birthday celebrations, but to me if James is identifying as a boy, then I should be treating him as a boy in all aspects.

I have offered the compromise of attending the party until 10.30pm and then I will pick her up, but apparently the sleepover is the best bit, and I am just doing this to be mean.....

My older child was a boy, and whilst we had similar sleepover issues, we haven't any experience of transgender friends in this scenario.

Do you think I am being unreasonable?

OP posts:
BlueSlipperSocks · 20/02/2019 19:41

Does James have a penis? (I think not!).

James is very much a girl isn't he?

What exactly is your problem?

I get that trans people want it all ways. In this case James is a girl, who identifies as a boy, but still invites girls to his sleep over. The problem with self ID is very much James'.

Would I allow my 13 year old girl to sleepover at a 13 year old girls house? - even if that girl self ID's as a boy, without a penis. The answer would be yes. I have never not allowed them to sleep over at their same sex friends houses - unless I didn't trust the parents to keep them safe.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 20/02/2019 19:50

Actually: I am not sure you should change your mind. If your rule is no sleepovers with boys, then since James feels they are a boy, to honour James’ own beliefs, you need to say no.

And actually girls should be allowed to have girls things and girls sleepovers and if James wants to be treated as a boy then no, James can’t participate.

Now, actually both you and your DD see James as a girl and so think it’s OK. But to do that is to go against James beliefs. So either you treat James with respect or act on your own beliefs which are disrespectful to James.

Given the prevalence and dangers of ROGD, you might have another reason for sticking to your view of no sleepovers with trans boys.

Feb2018mumma · 20/02/2019 19:53

The issue here is, if OP says okay, then daughter wants to sleep at another boys house next week OP can't say no. If OP does say no, with the reasoning that James wasn't a 'real boy' it will surely cause issues with James's parents and OP? Not that anything would happen at any mix sleepover, but I'm with OP that 13 seems too young?

Vixxxy · 20/02/2019 19:53

I have said no, as I would not let her sleep at a boy's house on a sleepover, and as James is identifying as a boy, I will treat him as such.

As James is female, I see no reason to refuse tbh. If James was MTF then I would see it as her staying at a boys house, so it would be a firm no when young.

Vixxxy · 20/02/2019 19:54

The issue here is, if OP says okay, then daughter wants to sleep at another boys house next week OP can't say no

But the daughter has even said that James is a girl? The daughter knows this, so asking to stay at an actual boys house is a different matter entirely..

AlbusSeverusMalfoy · 20/02/2019 20:01

What do you think is going to happen? My eldest DC is currently sleeping over a best friends who is the opposite sex. I have known the family years. I have no concerns at all about this mixed sleepover.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 20:02

I find the whole trans issue a minefield and so difficult to discuss openly - I was already accused of trans bashing by a pp, but I genuinely believed my approach was correct and needed further advice - as other pp said - I don’t want to be “that parent”. There weren’t these issues when my 22yo son was a teen.

I had a post on here once that was deleted because I was incredulous that some people believe women can have a male genital - I won’t say what as I don’t want to get deleted again, but since then I have read around the issue as obviously I was out of date regarding gender issues.

I was trying to do my best to treat James as a boy, but as I have said that was probably too rigid in view of the age and circumstances.

OP posts:
Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 20:24

What’s ROGD?

OP posts:
BlueSlipperSocks · 20/02/2019 20:25

Squirrel I get your angst completely. Your DD has been invited to her friends sleepover. As far as DD is concerned her friend is a girl who wants to be a boy, but is very much a girl. Your thinking is James ID's as a boy so should be regarded as a boy. After all isn't that pc?

It's a bloody minefield!

As far as your DD going to her girl friends sleepover (and James is a girl to all intents and purposes) there is no danger to your DD.

Has James, who identifies as a boy, invited boys to his sleepover? Will there be 13 year old boys present?

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 20/02/2019 20:32

Do you think there is a risk your DD will be exposed to any sexually Abusive behaviour

That’s the main question I think to drive your answer ? Risk sounds low to me but I don’t know her circle of friends

Juells · 20/02/2019 20:34

Rapid onset gender dysphoria

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180822150809.htm

Among the noteworthy patterns Littman found in the survey data: 21 percent of parents reported their child had one or more friends become transgender-identified at around the same time; 20 percent reported an increase in their child's social media use around the same time as experiencing gender dysphoria symptoms; and 45 percent reported both.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 20:37

I don’t believe that James has invited any boys, I don’t think the boys at school have been quite as inclusive as the girls.

OP posts:
Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 20:39

Juells those statistics are concerning, I will read more around that.

OP posts:
Juells · 20/02/2019 20:39

I feel sorry for James, but I would be keeping my daughter well away.

GlitterStick · 20/02/2019 20:47

I feel sorry for James, but I would be keeping my daughter well away

You'd keep your daughter well away from James? Why? Genuine question

Juells · 20/02/2019 21:06

Genuine question

I sincerely doubt that. Wink

GlitterStick · 20/02/2019 21:14

It really was, you said you'd keep your daughter well away from James and I wondered why

JazzyBBG · 20/02/2019 21:22

"oh but James isn't really a boy, he just thinks she is"

😂 I think your DD has the measure.

ContadoraExplorer · 20/02/2019 21:24

I had a group of friends from a hobby when I was around that age, all girls except one heterosexual boy. We had sleepovers all the time for birthdays etc. and he always came to them. It was just a bunch of friends watching horror films, eating junk food and trying to stay awake all night. Nothing dodgy happened at all, I think you should let her stay, especially if all the other girls are.

Orchidflower1 · 20/02/2019 21:31

I think if you can guarantee no other boys ie genetically male then I’d let her go. I think your dd has a sensible attitude. She perceives it as a same sex sleepover which technically it is.

Rainsunwindhail · 20/02/2019 21:47

OP I think you’ve navigated a tricky situation well. I respect your original desire to respect James’ as a boy, and with your change of heart. I think you’re a good mum x

Dutch1e · 20/02/2019 21:54

Good on you for speaking openly with your daughter.

Generally speaking though, I can't quite wrap my head around a ban on mixed-sex sleepovers. Does sexual experimentation not happen during the day? Do none of these families have older brothers? Fathers, if we're going down that road?

How do boys and girls learn how to be friends if they're blocked from normal aspects of each other's lives like sleepovers?

(Genuine questions, and not aimed at you OP, only wondering)

fleshmarketclose · 20/02/2019 21:55

I'm currently hosting my dd's mtf transgender friend. It's a minefield, rule here is that doors are left open and friend sleeps in downstairs bedroom although apparently friend is straight and not attracted to dd anyway. I feel like I'm making it up as I go along tbh but seem to have got brownie points from dd for hosting when others might not.

Original poster
secretsquirrelthethird · 20/02/2019 21:57

Dutch1e
Can boys and girls, or girls and girls not be friends unless they are having sleepovers? Can they not just be friends at school, after school clubs, sports activities, clubs, shopping, going for a coffee, going to the beach, hanging out together - why should going to their respective homes to sleep at 10/11pm prevent them being friends?

OP posts:
Dutch1e · 20/02/2019 22:18

secretsquirrelthethird fair point.

I guess it could also work the other way though too... if they're going to get into sexually dicey territory it can happen while hanging out at 4pm.

Why do we assume that sex only happens in beds after dark? (Again, honest question as I also feel a bit funny about mixed-sex sleepovers but I'm not sure why)