Abortions and men

[Lollypop27]

After watching tonight’s Call the midwife Dh and I had a discussion about terminations. We were talking about the how the state of New York passed a bill for abortions up to full term. It ended up quite heated.

I am of the mind that whatever I may or may not do in a situation has no bearing on what another woman would do and that it is not my right to decide for her. Any time any reason. Dh completely disagrees. Not on time limits or anything but he feels that the father of the child should have a decision and his thoughts should be taken in to consideration. I could kind of understand what he was saying but he couldn’t give me an answer when I said what if the woman didn’t want an abortion and the male did. Would he then have the right to force it upon her? He said it was a completely different thing. I disagree. If a male can can decide that the female keeps the child then surely he would be able to decide if she can’t?

This isn’t another thread about if you agree with terminations or not. Or the time limits but if you feel the male should have a decision.

A man should have no right to decide whether a female should have to go through the emotional and physical pain of labour and delivery. It is the woman's body and she should be free to do decide whether or not she goes through that.

I do agree it's hard to say that the man's opinion doesn't matter. But at the end of the day it is the woman's body. If the man gets to make choices about women's bodies, where does it end?

No. The reason that termination is a woman's choice is because pregnancy happens in a woman's body. It's not 'what happens to the foetus' but 'what happens to the woman'.

I'm amazed he doesn't get this.

I think no (I'm pro choice and currently pregnant with a much longed for baby just for background that may sway my view!).

As a pregnancy has such an impact on the woman (to an extent an impact that men can't comprehend as they will never experience it) I don't think it's fair that they should have a say.

My husband has been a great support during my pregnancy and we have discussed birth plans etc. While I am more than happy to hear his view on our birth plan and we talk about it together we both know it is ultimately my choice in regards to pain relief etc as it is my body that is going through the pregnancy.

Where would the line be drawn for abusive relationships/ rape etc? What about if the woman was living a lifestyle that was dangerous to the pregnancy? Could this rule lead to the man being able to force her to follow certain guidelines? It's a dangerous path to go down.

Bodily autonomy trumps everything else. Forced abortion and forced pregnancy/birth can never be acceptable. While women make and carry babies, they get to decide what happens to their bodies.

Sorry that was not a very clear concise post. Obviously bed time 🤦🏻‍♀️

I can understand why this is a difficult subject to reconcile feelings about. Ultimately however, it is a woman's body and therefore a woman's choice.

As a man, the decision is wholly the woman's.

Your husband is confusing the father's rights pertaining to his child/the fetus Vs the woman's right to bodily autonomy. Anything less than full control witg regards to something as emotionally and physically significant as pregnancy/birth lead to murky moral areas that ultimately infringe on a female's right to decide what happens to her.

Rape/abuse, having different cultural values or even something as simple as impact of carrying a child on the health of the mother, none of this is straightforward or objective if you step a single inch towards saying the right of a father to determine what happens with his fetus should merge into a right to bind the woman's body to his choice about the fetus.

He's missing the point that you cannot have fathers making decisions about fetuses without surrendering the rights of a living, breathing woman. Surely he can understandthat?

No
Her body
It really is as simple as that

It has to be the women’s choice as it’s part of their body until it’s born.

If we had the technology to take the baby out of the mother’s body and put it in the father’s then I think the father should have the right to say he wants that to happen rather than the baby be terminated.

But that doesn’t currently exist and may never exist.

The mother has the right to say what is and isn’t in their body.

Nobody gets to decide what happens to another competent adult’s body.

I do think people believe that a legally correct decision should never have any unpleasant emotions attached to it. Hence many campaigns for 'justice for X' when in fact quite often the person has had justice, but with an outcome that's unacceptable to them.

I can well believe that many men are devastated when a woman decides to terminate. But that emotional situation does not change the legally and ethically correct situation that a woman MUST have autonomy over her own body.

Men have a lot of opinions about terminations, but if they carried babies I bet there would be a whole lot more of them.

Also, he might have a different view if you flip this around to infringement of male rights for permitting someone else's choice.

E.g. in cases of rape or failure of birth control... Say we live in a world where males are forced to become kidney transplant donars. The state decides (without consultation) that your husband's kidney is sorely needed to save the life of a compatible citizen. Everyone would agree that this citizen, in an ideal world, is worth saving. But no matter how worthy, your husband still (in a civilized society that recognises bodily autonomy) would presumably want to have a choice in the matter, yes?

This is the best example I can think of right now but there are probably better ones (for one, a living adult isn't equivalent to a 4 week old fetus for some people, and two, a kidney transplant is a one day/post-recovery event, not a nine month/birth/recovery marathon).

I can (sort of) understand where your DH is coming from because it is what I thought when I first heard about the abortion debate as a young teenager.

In an ideal world, I do think it should be a joint decision with both parties considering the others thoughts and feelings.

But abortions don’t happen in an ideal world.

They happen in the real world. Ultimately, it is the woman who must live with the consequences of pregnancy which are economic, social, emotional and medical. For biological reasons, it is a woman’s choice.

With maturity and greater reflection, I believe 100% that women should have access to abortions and their partners should support their decisions.

Being pregnant is a medical condition and having an abortion is a medical procedure. We are all able to make medical decisions for ourselves without reference to anyone else the same applies here.

No, the man should not choose or have any significant impact on the decision. No one else should make the decision for a woman, or try to. We still live in a society where having children impacts far more on the life of women than men. Not just pregnancy and birth.

No of course not! Because as you say it would involve non consensual use of the woman's body.. either by forcing her to give birth against her will or forcing her to have an abortion.

Of course a man can say how he feels about it... but he should have no legal right to decide what ultimately happens.. because that would give him legal right over a woman's body.

Not until the pregnancy can be transferred to the man. So no never.

Even if the pregnancy could be transferred to the man I imagine the woman would need a medical procedure performed on her in order to do that.... so again she has to have sole rights over her own body

ASk him if all the women out there 100% raising children alone should be able to force responsibility on to a father, and I don't mean maintenance. My xh pays maintenance but I have the children ALL the time and I wish I had a say in that but I don't.

I also don't have a say that there is no free childcare. If he feels strongly about men having a say then one way to reduce the demand for terminations would be to get out there and campaign for free childcare along the lines of schools hospitals roads............

I agree with the majority - no.

When I was 18, I got pregnant, and my then boyfriend felt very strongly I should terminate. I suggested adoption; he vetoed. All the pressure of our families and my doctor was against us too, but still, looking back, I do wish someone had really said to me it was not his decision. I am strongly pro-choice. But having an abortion really messed me up, and I wish I hadn't done it, especially because I assumed at the time I was duty-bound to consider the opinions of someone who, realistically, didn't have anything like as much trauma to think about.

A year later he got someone else pregnant, and was equally sure abortion was the right thing then, too.

Don't they have enough power already. How could you have a child with an unwilling mother, how is that different from rape?

@returningtothesceneofthecrime, yes, I agree with you about ideal worlds and real worlds, what I meant was that men who feel like this should speak out to create the type of ideal world that would support more women and result in fewer terminations but hardly any take 'that' approach.