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AIBU?

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Original poster

Abortions and men

286 replies

Lollypop27 · 03/02/2019 22:40

After watching tonight’s Call the midwife Dh and I had a discussion about terminations. We were talking about the how the state of New York passed a bill for abortions up to full term. It ended up quite heated.

I am of the mind that whatever I may or may not do in a situation has no bearing on what another woman would do and that it is not my right to decide for her. Any time any reason. Dh completely disagrees. Not on time limits or anything but he feels that the father of the child should have a decision and his thoughts should be taken in to consideration. I could kind of understand what he was saying but he couldn’t give me an answer when I said what if the woman didn’t want an abortion and the male did. Would he then have the right to force it upon her? He said it was a completely different thing. I disagree. If a male can can decide that the female keeps the child then surely he would be able to decide if she can’t?

This isn’t another thread about if you agree with terminations or not. Or the time limits but if you feel the male should have a decision.

OP posts:
Dimsumlosesum · 04/02/2019 06:30

There was another thread on here where a poster was utterly laying in to the OP, saying how vile and disgusting it was because she wanted to keep the baby and the boyfriend wanted an abortion. The poster had never been through an abortion, had no clue what it means to go through with one. As it stands, yes a man's opinion needs to be considered - but ultimately it's the woman who bears the physical and mental cost of carrying a baby to term/raising it/having an abortion. The nastiness on this thread is awful.

musicMerchandiseWebsite · 04/02/2019 06:54

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YouSayPotatoesISayVodka · 04/02/2019 06:59

It has to be the woman’s choice what happens to her body. He’s either not too bright or he’s only thinking about his “rights” regarding a child- which don’t exist unless that child is born. Until then it is a foetus- totally different.

Weetabixandshreddies · 04/02/2019 07:21

Men take on the risk of pregnancy when they have sex.

As do women too, surely?

I don't follow this argument at all. If you say a man should abstain from sex if he doesn't want to risk becoming a father then surely women should do the same?

I am pro choice. The idea of late term abortions, or even terminations after 18 weeks, for anything other than life threatening complications fills me with horror. I would still rather the woman have that option than be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn't want.

I'd prefer the argument to be simply that women have, and must continue to have, bodily autonomy whilst acknowledging that it must be difficult for the father if an abortion occurs against his wishes.

The argument that basically a man accepts the risk of an unwanted pregnancy everytime he has sex and that if he doesn't like that he should abstain are just silly.

NotANotMan · 04/02/2019 07:25

Nobody has the right to decide what a pregnant woman does with her body, no matter whose genetic material contributed to the foetus.

NotANotMan · 04/02/2019 07:26

I don't follow this argument at all. If you say a man should abstain from sex if he doesn't want to risk becoming a father then surely women should do the same?

No, because we have the option of safe, legal abortion, which can only be undertaken by the woman.

Weetabixandshreddies · 04/02/2019 07:31

NotANotMan

Why not read my entire post?

I'm not disagreeing with abortion nor with the woman's right to choose.

I'm disagreeing with the argument that says men have no right to compel a woman to have an abortion because they took the risk of an unwanted pregnancy when they had sex.

That is a ridiculous argument. Presumably the woman too takes that risk? You could flip the argument and deny women terminations for unwanted pregnancies by saying they knew the risks before they had sex and so they should have abstained if they didn't accept that risk.

The only argument for men having no say is that women have bodily autonomy.

agirlhasnonameX · 04/02/2019 07:36

Why should a man have the right to absolve himself of a woman's pregnancy when a woman does not have a choice? Either way she has to deal with the consequences of having sex and so should the man. It is sad for men who lose a foetus they wanted to be a baby, but it always has to be a woman's choice it's just the unfortunate biology and the father has to respect that if she doesn't want to terminate, he is half responsible for the creation of the life.

NotANotMan · 04/02/2019 07:43

@weetabixandshreddies it's not a ridiculous argument.
At any point in decision making there is a point where you can stop the course of action from happening, and a point where it is too late, and the course of action will happen whether you want to stop it or not. This applies to all decisions in various ways.
For the man, the point where he can stop the course of action is prior to ejaculation. For women, it's a later point, after conception has taken place.
They both have choices, but their capacity to affect future actions is different.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/02/2019 07:45

@musicMerchandiseWebsite

Are you talking about men or women?

Men. Because for women, abstinence isn't the only 100% guaranteed way of ensuring they don't have a baby, when they can choose to obtain a safe and legal abortion. For men, they don't have that choice and never should.

You're yet to give any kind of explanation as to why women can opt out of parenthood but not men.

I have said it many times but you're ignoring it: because pregnancy happens in women's body and their bodily autonomy trumps the rights of anyone else involved. It's really very simple.

When men start to get pregnant and carry a baby I would then say it's their right and not the woman's to abort.

I bet you rarely never feel like this when women are losing out because of this uneven keel (not the metaphor you think it is, but we'll run with it).

Well women don't go round trying to force men to do things with their bodies they don't want to do, so there's never a reason

I see you. I know exactly what kind of person you are.
OoOooh . I see you too you misogynist

He gifted their home? So she remained in the home they lived in together as is her right? 🧐

Out of interest how would "opting out" work. Because you know you can't wave a magic wand and suddenly the child is another man's? They ARE father and child, what essentially would happen is you'd pretend they weren't. Would the child never get to find out about their bloodline? Because not even sperm donors have the right to anonymity.

The bottom line is: there will be a child at the end of this if the mother chooses. A child who did nothing wrong and deserves at least the chance to know and be taken care of (if not emotionally then at least financially) by both parents. They are more important than a man having a tantrum because he couldn't keep his cock in his pants.

But if you've been conditioned to think men's wallets are the most important ever, I'm sorry about that

DisplayPurposesOnly · 04/02/2019 07:50

A decision - no.
An opinion - yes.

If I were pregnant (and undecided about having a baby), I would think it reasonable to discuss this with the father. But I would make the decision.

icannotremember · 04/02/2019 07:51

No one but the pregnant woman gets to choose, ever.

Weetabixandshreddies · 04/02/2019 07:52

NotANotMan

I disagree, sorry. The point at which a pregnancy can be prevented is before conception. Men and women both have the same chance to prevent this - abstention.

After that point only the woman has the option to prevent the continuation of pregnancy.

If a couple actively decide to get pregnant but the woman then changes her mind and has an abortion the only argument you can use is bodily autonomy. How can the man have chosen to abstain? Together they chose to get pregnant. But your argument is that the man should have refused? How does that argument work?

Weetabixandshreddies · 04/02/2019 08:00

They are more important than a man having a tantrum because he couldn't keep his cock in his pants.

And the woman had no part to play in this? I find this such a weird way of thinking.

I've seen so many threads on here from women upset that their husbands don't want another child. Many posters say it's his choice but a lot say that it isn't fair that he can unilaterally decide that, that she should talk to him and basically attempt to make him change his mind.

Why should men enter into any sort of a relationship where their views are considered so irrelevant?

anniehm · 04/02/2019 08:00

Whilst men don't have the final say, it does make a difference if a man is saying they will take full responsibility for the baby once it's born over situations where the man just walks away. There needs to be limits in place for abortions which are not for medical reasons - 12-14 weeks imho, after that there should be a medical diagnosis and yes the fathers opinion should be taken into account too.

AnneElliott · 04/02/2019 08:00

No men should not have a say. They are free to walk away any time they want (and lots do) so it's the woman that gets to decide.

I also think that make MPs shouldn't have a vote on abortion laws, but I realise that's quite an extreme view.

And no, I haven't been left holding the baby before anybody asks. DH is still here!

AnneElliott · 04/02/2019 08:01

Male MPs!

Biancadelriosback · 04/02/2019 08:02

Argh see I do genuinely believe that the decision lies with the woman. Always. No argument. However I believe that the woman should consider the father when making her decision. I don't mean he gets a say, but I believe he should be heard. It is his child after all.

zippey · 04/02/2019 08:10

I think once a man gives his spermvtovtge woman, then it’s hers, since it’s now inside her body. And then it’s her choice conpletely.

NotANotMan · 04/02/2019 08:10

I don't mean he gets a say, but I believe he should be heard. It is his child after all

There is no 'should' in this situation. Some men may want a baby, some men won't. Some men will think of a foetus as a baby, some won't. Some men will be supportive, some will be abusive, coercive or manipulative. How about we leave it to the woman involved to decide what she 'should' talk to the man about?

TaimaandRanyasBestFriend · 04/02/2019 08:13

Not on time limits or anything but he feels that the father of the child should have a decision and his thoughts should be taken in to consideration.

He can feel all he wants but NO ONE should have a decision or their 'thoughts taken into consideration' when it comes to having a medical procedure on another person's body that one does or doesn't want.

Lushlemming · 04/02/2019 08:17

Well as you literally CAN'T get pregnant by accident, the whole debate is academic. It's a needless procedure, save for the vanishingly small incidents of pregnancy by rape or where there is a medical issue and an abortion is necessary to prevent harm to the mother.

You can't get pregnant accidentially because you have to have sex first, and you can't do that by accident.

Saying "sometimes contraception can fail" is like saying "sometimes parachuted don't open".

Windgate · 04/02/2019 08:18

When a FtoM transgender man suspends treatment in order to become pregnant and give birth which of the two men involved would get to make the ultimate decision ?

If a man gets autonomy over woman's uterus does she get autonomy over his testicles, can she force to have a vasectomy?

My body my choice

ResistanceIsNecessary · 04/02/2019 08:32

It's her body - that's why he has no say.

If he thinks it's acceptable to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term against her will, then presumably he'd also be fine with forced vasectomies?

QueenieInFrance · 04/02/2019 08:34

If a man gets autonomy over woman's uterus does she get autonomy over his testicles, can she force to have a vasectomy?

THAT
No man wouod ever agree that a woman could have any authority on him re a vasectomy.
So why shouod a man have any authority on a woman re abortion?
After all, a vasectomy is just becoming infertile. Being pregnant means a potential of long life illnesses (incl MH andPTSD) and possible death.
And that’s before talking about who is going to look after said baby (aka 80% ofthe work will be the woman anyway)

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