If you had to choose would you prefer a Corbyn Government/soft or no Brexit or a Hard Brexit with Tories staying in power?

[mothertruck3r]

If the choice was between a hard Brexit (but the Tories staying in power) or soft/no Brexit and the Tory vote collapsing and Corbyn getting into power, which do you think would be more damaging to the UK and to you on a personal level?

Anyone but Corby. One foot in each camp and not taking a stand on anything unless forced too.

"No one was mocking or racist towards her. "

Except people mock her all the time. She's "stuipd, useless, thick"

"A spectacularly unintelligent woman."

Except that she has a degree from Cambridge and has been a successful public servant for 35 years.

No one aims the same "stupid, thick, useless" comments at other politicians in the same way.

Boris quotes incorrect figures, but it gets laughed off, and the vitriol is no where near the same.

Hammond, Grieve and Gove made very similar errors over figures in the same election campaign, where is their vilification?

Jacob Rees Mogg went on Andrew Marr and made statements that show that he totally doesn't understand how the WTO works, buyt no one uses these terms about him. Farage did something similar with Andrew Neil.

The ERG published an entire document that discussed something that doesn't exist a "World Trade Deal", and in this document used citations, which only cited other documents written by the organisation its self ( none of which contained any actual data) the one document from the Bank of England that they did quote, they did so erroneously. They launched this travesty to much fanfare, whilst essentially saying "All economists are idiots, except for this one that says what we want" . An utter act of intellectual credulity.

Ian Duncan Smith lied about his qualifications and has a history of getting things wrong too.

But no one vilifies them, and no one uses terms that have in the past been used to justify discrimination to black people.

So yes, racist.

No one aims the same "stupid, thick, useless" comments at other politicians in the same way.
I disagree - Tory politicians are subject to vicious verbal attacks the whole time. A quick glance at any political thread on mumsnet would confirm this.

The Tories are a blight on our country and have done their best to wreck it in the last 8 years. We need them out of government as soon as possible. They have no consideration at all for the people they are meant to be representing.

No one aims the same "stupid, thick, useless" comments at other politicians in the same way.

Yes they do!

I would take anything but Corbyn in charge. And I mean anything. Even the son of the devil.

Last night I was really angry but today (due to flu) I'm a bit less passionate about it.

It would be interesting to know the backgrounds, occupations and experiences of the various faceless opinions behind this thread.

I have worked for three LA and the NHS since 2004. Was on the very sharp end of a few Conservative policies personally. I agree Corbyn alienates voters but I still don't understand why he is seen as dangerous.

I still don't understand why he is seen as dangerous.

Because dim Tory automata and dim Tory-lite Thatcher loving Labourites like to parrot the trite soundbytes of the thick right-wing press.

Corbyn and Labour are horrendous.
I voted Leave and am a Conservative voter/party member.
I would never cote for Labour or Corbyn even if he wanted hard Brexit!

Because dim Tory automata and dim Tory-lite Thatcher loving Labourites like to parrot the trite soundbytes of the thick right-wing press.

Grow up.

I think the Conservatives have done so much damage and are responsible for the whole Brexit disaster from start to finish (whatever that may be). So of course I wouldn't vote for them (and never have to be honest as I don't agree with a lot of their policies). I have zero respect for Boris Johnson or Jacob R-M and I totally blame David Cameron. May has been left the poisoned chalice and I think she is doing her best under impossible conditions in relation to Brexit.

I would prefer Corbyn (if there is only the choice of 2) as I am more aligned to his policies and I believe he wants a softer Brexit and definitely doesn't want no deal to happen. Though I am very disappointed on his near silence on anything Brexit related since the referendum.

The way I feel now I am never going to vote for either of the main parties again in my lifetime as I am so disappointed in the way this whole thing has been handled. I will probably vote Lib Dem or Green in future. However, if Labour got a new leader that I liked I might vote for them again.

I believe he wants a softer Brexit and definitely doesn't want no deal to happen.

Just seen on another thread he didn't go to his meeting with May with Starmer but Milne. Along with the fact his tone was quite positive when he came out, I think he is wanting a harder brexit than you think.

Everyone who is saying a Corbyn government will be a disaster, can you just outline why? If you argue economic reasons can you please really clearly explain what you mean and why you think Starmer, McDonnell et al would be worse at managing the country in a way that is more damaging than how we stand at the moment?

Corbyn's manifesto is based around a huge amount of extra income from increased taxation. I don't believe that this will happen. The super-rich and corporations will simply move their assets away from the UK. The upper middle earners will find ways of not paying - for example by working less and taking more holiday. As a result he'll be forced to put up taxes even more - (remember the 98% tax band?) further worsening the situation.

On the other side of the coin, he has promised to splash money all over the place. Tuition fees, public sector wages, benefits, public services. But nobody will be satisfied - everybody will be back cap in hand for another slice of the pie. This will lead to increased unionisation, and increased inflation. Everybody will want more money or a pay rise. This will then lead to strikes and further restricted working practices.

I've also noticed a frightening intolerance from Corbyn supporters of any view that doesn't toe the party line. We can laugh at this at the moment - but once the whole Momentum organisation is in power, who knows what changes to our freedoms could suddenly turn into law. Perhaps it will be illegal to "smear" anybody from the party leadership - who knows?

I don't love the tories - but some of the things that Corbyn/Momentum could do make me really frightened.

latebreakfast

Thanks for taking the time to reply and explain properly. Food for thought.

"The super-rich and corporations will simply move their assets away from the UK. The upper middle earners will find ways of not paying - for example by working less and taking more holiday."

The level of corporation tax was still going to be lower than anywhere else in Europe other than Ireland.

The impact of the increased tax on those over £85,000 was going to be about £90 PCM if you earned £120k, so fairly minimal.

The hyperbole surrounding this is ridiculous.

"Tuition fees, public sector wages, benefits, public services"

Al of which would have a net benefit to the economy, and be paid back through the ficscal dividend recieved.

Someone doesn't understand economics much.

Oh and I'll stand by my comments on Diane Abbot, I've never seen anyone call Gove, Grieve or Hammond stupid for making the same error she did. Boris? I've seen a little bit of this, but he has repeatedly made stupid gaffs in public, far more than Abbot, and receives significantly less abuse. JRM never gets any despite going on live TV and demonstrating an utter lack of understanding of what he is talking about.

Hard Brexit and Tories is what I hope for anyway. Corbyn is a nutcase, but the other MPs in his party would curb his excesses tbf. Unless momentum have a purge of the same MPs labour holds...

Still haven't heard a justification for hard brexit yet.

Not a flipping clue to be honest x

Labour. Corbyn could be ousted and he’s pretty old so won’t last forever anyway. The effects of a hard Brexit would last forever (or at least a very very long time).

Anything but Corbyn

Corbyn and I'm at the stage of really not giving a flying fuck with Brexit either way, so long as Theresa gets her marching orders and takes her party with her along with the DUP. Not even Maggie did as much damage to the country as her and Cameron have.

I voted remain but do believe democracy has worked and Leave won. What I don't agree with is all the constant amount of unrelated companies (like car insurance firms) saying they're putting prices up vast amounts down to it. What on god's earth has Brexit got to do with how safely or otherwise we all drive? Are they under the impression come March 29th, everyone is going to treat the roads like a rally track?

It's like Y2K and the Millennium Bug all over again. It's a distraction technique to defer attention from how crime, homelessness and poverty is on the rise down to that parties cuts. Simple as that.

I'm pretty radical left, but I do not trust Corbyn's competence and automatically regard any leader with a personality cult as a threat to civil discourse, intellectualism and society as a whole.

Corbyn/labour government and no Brexit would be perfect. I’ve always been a labour voter but now they’ve actually swung further left they’re more aligned with my personal politics.

But I would easily choose the Tories and no Brexit over labour and Brexit.
Brexit is the problem.

The impact of the increased tax on those over £85,000 was going to be about £90 PCM if you earned £120k, so fairly minimal.

Yes, I'm sure most people on that income won't mind handing over another £1000 per year. But when it doubles the next year? Or when the threshold drops to £50K?

Tuition fees, public sector wages, benefits, public services"
All of which would have a net benefit to the economy, and be paid back through the ficscal dividend recieved

Indeed they would. But it wouldn't stop there (and hasn't when we've done this sort of thing before). Everybody would be clamouring for yet more money.

Someone doesn't understand economics much.

Best not vote for him then.

The level of corporation tax was still going to be lower than anywhere else in Europe other than Ireland.

And you think it'll remain like that? Corporation tax will be a cash cow for Momentum until the country belatedly realise that low corporation tax brings a far higher gain in PAYE and VAT income.

It’s not just big businesses that pay corporation tax either, it’s small businesses too. In fact small businesses usually pay more because they don’t hide any.

People here ‘corporation’ tax and think they are booting it to the big man when in reality it’s your shop keepers and such like who suffers.