To ask how to deal with non-vaccinating SIL and Bro

[Nomnomchanger]

Have named changed. Would appreciate advice on how to resolve this difficult family situation.

In short, brother and SIL have refused to vaccinate their son, who is now 18 months old.
No vaccinations at all (ie, not just MMR). They say they have ‘done a lot of research’ and are happy with their decision and want the rest of the family to respect that.

We have a DS, 3 months younger, and currently ttc #2. We are pro vaccination and think they are selfish and short- sighted, esp as we all live in Central London, and not an isolated island.

We had a huge argument with bro and SIL mid last year on account of their refusal to vaccinate and have not spoken since.
Our view is that it’s one thing them demanding that we respect their parenting choice, but when that decision has potential to impact on us (and others), that’s where we have an impasse.

SIL has never been particularly friendly but claimed that our decision not to want to be in their company was us ‘alienating their son’.

My parents are not particularly helpful. My mother (worried that she will also get blacklisted from seeing non vacc grandson if she criticises their decision) says that bro and SIL ‘have done a lot of research’ and that in any case we have no idea who is or isn’t vaccinated at all the classes we attend (ie, what difference does it make).

Christmas was very difficult, as you can imagine. Not sure how to resolve this going forward.

Tbh there isn’t much you can do unless you both agree to forget about it and not mention the issue again.

Once you've had DC2 I would avoid until they've had their one year jabs then they're covered.

I think this is one of those instances where you keep your children away until they have had all their vaccinations and never speak of it again. They are incredibly stupid but everyone has their moments. It’s not worth loosing your relationship over.

I wouldn't visit tbh, you could be putting future pregnancy at risk.

YABU, I'm not sure what there is to resolve... They are ani Vax, did they impart their views on you when you chose to vaccinate? Did they interfere in your parenting decisions?

Whether you (or I) agree or not with their choices, it is their child, their choice! Nothing you can do but respect their decision.

I'm not sure what you want from them. You can't force them to vaccinate their children. The only way to resolve this is to stop discussing it and agree to disagree. I'm very much pro-vaccine but I have a friend who's kids are not vaccinated. We simply don't go near the subject. Neither of us will ever agree with the other person's stand point so why even go there?

Don't expect your mum to intervene, it puts her in the middle which is unfair on her when not vaccinating is a decision out of her control. Try reverse it, how receptive would you be if your mum started asking you on behalf of SIL to not vaccinate your new baby? Your mum is Switzerland. Don't discuss your brother or SIL or their decision with her. There's no harm in her seeing both grandchildren at different times, so long as she herself has been vaccinated she is highly unlikely to catch anything and carry it between them.

You've already decided not to be in their company, if they say anything further then explain that this will continue until both of your children have had their full course of vaccines and it is their parenting decision not to vaccinate which has led to you taking measures to keep your DC safe. Once your DC are safe (i.e., have been vaccinated) then contact can resume if they so wish.

I agree with your mum that in day to day life you don't know who you're in contact with at groups, etc and whether or not they have been vaccinated but that is an unknown risk outside of your control unless you were to stay at home in a bubble 24/7 however you can limit your child's contact with someone you know for a fact is unvaccinated and therefore a known risk.

You can't resolve this if neither of you are going to budge.

Is your problem that you think they've made the wrong choice for their child or that you're worried their child might infect yours?

Their decision may be wrong but they are trying to do the best for their own child just as you are. If yours is vaccinated then presumably they are not putting yours at risk.

I'm with your Mother for what it's worth. My child is vaccinated but I'm sure there are plenty who aren't in the groups she goes to.

So I think you are overreacting.

I agree with pp above - no contact until your DC are fully vaccinated and don't try to engage. You can't argue with that kind of zealotry.

FWIW your SIL and bro are idiots.

Not much you can do.
They obviously believe they are doing the right thong for their offspring.
You have yo just hope that the diseases that the inoculation would protect against do not occur.
Friend, a doctor, has seen children die of Measles in UK hospital

I don't think there is anything you can do.
I think they are totally irresponsible to not vaccinate, and it is decisions like this that have led to the increase in Measles, for example.
If your DS is vaccinated, he's ok. if there's any possibility of serious illness in their DS, then you should keep well away while you're ttc or pg.

There is an anti vax family in my family. I just don't mention it, apart from sharing things on Facebook about how important it is.

To clarify, my concerns are not for DS who is fully vaccinated, but specifically for me as we are ttc #2, and (if we are lucky) the health of that child in the time up to a year old.

I accept that their parenting choice is theirs to make and am not trying to change it.
I have a problem with the pressure that is being applied to us to continue to meet up with/be one big happy family - particularly as we’ve told them we are ttc.

They say they have ‘done a lot of research’ and
says that bro and SIL ‘have done a lot of research’

What are their credentials? Doctors? Biochemists?

It's bollocks isn't it. They've shown themselves to be ignorant and selfish, both towards their own DC health and that of others. Horrible. I'd find it difficult to maintain a close relationship with people like that...even once any risk to you personally has passed, they will still be ignorant and selfish and there's no vaccine that can deal with that.

Sadly I cannot respect their decision. They have not done "research" they have trawled misinformation from the internet. Personally, I would not mention the subject again and ask them not to discuss with you. I would keep all babies too young to have had their full programme, including MMR away from them. Several forms of meningitis were infecting children only ten years ago, may died or lost limbs. Vaccination is making huge headway. These people are relying on families like yours to keep the herd immunity high enough to protect their children. Let us hope there are no immunosuppressed children mixing with them. UK efficiently gives freedom of choice, in many european countries children cannot attend nursery or school unvaccinated. It is not you who are isolating their children, but them. To the poster who suggests we should all support such dangerous and irresponsible decisions, I am aghast. Fatbutt freedom to put children at risk is hardly parenting. Accept their decision yes, respect it NO. Agree to differ and stay away from my babies

my concerns are not for DS who is fully vaccinated, but specifically for me as we are ttc #2...

Are you not fully vaccinated too?

No real reason you cant see them at the moment. Once you are pregnant then you can choose to stay away until baby is born but if you are immune/vaccinated then I personally would carry on seeing them until baby is born, then stop til baby is fully vaccinated

Don’t know why you’re so worried. If your baby is fit and healthy and vaccinated, what’s the risk? Isn’t that the point of being vaccinated? They’re doing what they think is best. Most of the immunisations kids have now weren’t around when I was growing up. No family members, no classmates, in fact no one I know or heard of was seriously unwell with anything. I remember one case of measles, the child was off school for about a week then came back.
I’m not saying no children got ill, Im just saying assess the risk. Is it really enough to deny your D.C. a relationship with a cousin of similar age?

Once your children (or any future children) have had vaccinations i would resume a relationship for the sake of the wider family...life is too short and it is their choice at then end of the day....if a little bonkers

Just say the same thing every time: sorry we can’t hang out with you, as you know we are ttc so obviously I can’t be around a child that I know is not vaccinated, NHS guidelines (I guess?).

Just be factual.

Not knowing if someone has had them or not can't be helped but you know. I wouldn't actively allow my children around a non vaccinated child, family or not.

These decisions don't just affect them, they affect us all. Once herd immunity is lost many people will get infected and die. It is an incredibly selfish and stupid path to take.

I couldn't socialise with such selfish ignorant individuals... Family or not.
Yes you don't know who is anti vax at say your playgroup but you have no choice there, with your bro and sil you do have choice.
I wouldn't ask you mum to make any choices, I would just decline any invites etc.
You are not alienating your dneph. His parents are doing that by failing to vaccinate him

You’re massively over reacting.

Of course they should vaccinate, but really, it’s their decision. You’re just escalating something because you are enjoying feeling right.

I wouldn’t worry. When my children were babies there was a lot of unvaccinated children around them, nothing happened.