To ask how to deal with non-vaccinating SIL and Bro

[Nomnomchanger]

Have named changed. Would appreciate advice on how to resolve this difficult family situation.

In short, brother and SIL have refused to vaccinate their son, who is now 18 months old.
No vaccinations at all (ie, not just MMR). They say they have ‘done a lot of research’ and are happy with their decision and want the rest of the family to respect that.

We have a DS, 3 months younger, and currently ttc #2. We are pro vaccination and think they are selfish and short- sighted, esp as we all live in Central London, and not an isolated island.

We had a huge argument with bro and SIL mid last year on account of their refusal to vaccinate and have not spoken since.
Our view is that it’s one thing them demanding that we respect their parenting choice, but when that decision has potential to impact on us (and others), that’s where we have an impasse.

SIL has never been particularly friendly but claimed that our decision not to want to be in their company was us ‘alienating their son’.

My parents are not particularly helpful. My mother (worried that she will also get blacklisted from seeing non vacc grandson if she criticises their decision) says that bro and SIL ‘have done a lot of research’ and that in any case we have no idea who is or isn’t vaccinated at all the classes we attend (ie, what difference does it make).

Christmas was very difficult, as you can imagine. Not sure how to resolve this going forward.

I had all my vaccines but it still turned out that I wasn't immune to Rubella - I discovered this after I had dc2. Thankfully I didn't come into contact with anyone who had it when I was pg (could easily have done so as I was a teacher).

The thing with parents who don't vaccinate is that their kids will benefit from herd immunity, but they either don't 'get' or care that their choice reduces herd immunity and puts other children who genuinely can't be vaccinated and people with low immunity due to illness, at extra risk.
It's very selfish and irresponsible and it's hard to spend time with people who are like that and pretend it doesn't matter.

Exactly what @IWannaSeeHowItEnds has said

I'm the biggest pro-vaxxer there is and have some good friends who have not vaccinated their children for utterly ridiculous reasons. I never bring it up because it makes me angry/frustrated to discuss, but she has pushed me into a conversation on a couple of occasions and said something vague about immune systems being too immature (she knows nothing about immunology and couldn't respond when I said, right let's take it back to T cells and B cells, although she is a scientist which makes her approach even more frustrating!) and I've said how selfish I think her decision is on a community level ie not contributing to herd immunity but obviously happy to benefit from it.

BUT - I would never keep my children away from hers for the sake of making a point or have not been round them when I was pregnant or TTC - what do you think is going to happen exactly? Remember they are protected by herd immunity too - they are not going to suddenly get polio! Measles/mumps slightly more a concern but you can assume they will tell you if they have it and if they don't know yet - well so could anyone on the bus. It's about weighing up the risks (minimal) vs the fallout with your family (sounds pretty catastrophic).

I don't like (or respect as some say you have to) my friends' decision but I love them dearly and in every other way they are wonderful parents so why would I alienate them over this - it just seems a massive overreaction to me and perhaps a sign that you don't really like them or want to spend to them for some other reason?

Ask your own GP for advice and just follow what they say, you have your own research and specific advice to back you up if they don't like you doing so. They can't criticise you for protecting your children the best you can when they think they are doing the same for their children.

@3WildOnes
Really your best friend is a Dr and anti vaccine?
I find that hard to believe as I work in public health and all the Drs I know through work and socially are all pro vaccine.

You can respect their decisions as parents and adults and move on. If you really don't want to see them then stay away but at the end of the day it's down to personal choice and if you can't respect what they decide to the point that you won't see any nephews or bricks then you're going to lose out - nothing on earth would keep me from seeing my nephews.

I will not spend time with anyone who has chosen not to vaccinate their children - family or not, and I am vocal enough about it in my own community. I will never respect someone's decision to not vaccinate based on having done 'their research'.

Whilst my children are fully vaccinated and in all probability safe, for me it is a matter of principle. I am doing my bit for herd immunity, and those who CANNOT be vaccinated.. What are anti-vaxers doing apart from riding off the backs of our vaccinated children.

We are currently preparing the papers needed for dc entrance to primary school. Where we live (Europe) first thing all schools and nurseries require are vaccination books.

This is how it should be everywhere. Dr google should be outlawed when it comes to immunisation.

3WildOnes

Is your friend a real doctor? I spend a lot of time with doctors of all disciplines, never met an anti vaccine one.

Only 'doctor' I ever met who was was a homeopathic one. Never a greater oxymoron than homeopathic doctor.

It is not my experience either.

Anti-vaxers and the rise of antibiotic resistant superbugs is a ticking time bomb!

We're not talking about school aged children mixing, we are talking about very young children too young to have had their vaccinations in close family contact with older children who have not had the vaccinations.

Well my cousin is a GP and she didn't vaccinate her dd. She hasn't publicised the fact or advised her patients not to vaccinate.

@zzzzz you question to me what "what about children that can't be vaccinated, do they not go to school?" And I answered that question
As vaccines are compulsory the only children not vaccinated are those that can't be. Therefore they are protected by everyone else.
There are not non-vaccinated children at school by choice.

My DC is vaccinated I am so confused about what you are trying to say!

Says it all

I have no idea whether my friends' children are vaccinated, we've never had the conversation. I take the view that it's my job to protect my child as much as possible (by vaccinating after doing the research) what they do is up to them. None of DD's grandparents have ever had any vaccinations in their lives and it would never have occurred to me to keep DD away from them when she was a baby. None of them have ever had measles either so I'm guessing they have no immunity to it.

And (controversially on MN) whilst I'm glad my daughter's vaccination is contributing to herd immunity, it played no part in my decision to do it, I simply weighed up the benefits versus the risks for my child. Why would any parent choose to do something that might harm their child (we all know that vaccines can have rare serious side effects) purely for the benefit of children they don't even know?

Many older people won't know if they've had mild doses of childhood illnesses when younger.

I am over 50 and wasn't vaccinated against measles or mumps. We did get rubella in high school. Measles was circulating in my family and the likelihood is we all had it. Everyone was exposed to it.

It's not true to say grandparents haven't had ANY vaccinations. I'm 65, I had polio, smallpox and TB vaccinations, which were all that were available then. As a child I had measles, mumps and rubella so presumably am now immune. I was 26 when I caught chicken pox from my son, he was a bit off colour for a few days, I thought I was going to die!

It's beyond me why anyone would choose not to vaccinate their child but because those who don't are such a tiny minority, they probably don't present much of a danger. I haven't heard of an incidence of those childhood diseases my generation all got for years.

zzzzz yes which is why I vaccinated my DD. But it was for her benefit, no-one else's.

The grandparents are in their 80s so I think they were towards the end of their schooling before the NHS was even created.