To ask how to deal with non-vaccinating SIL and Bro

[Nomnomchanger]

Have named changed. Would appreciate advice on how to resolve this difficult family situation.

In short, brother and SIL have refused to vaccinate their son, who is now 18 months old.
No vaccinations at all (ie, not just MMR). They say they have ‘done a lot of research’ and are happy with their decision and want the rest of the family to respect that.

We have a DS, 3 months younger, and currently ttc #2. We are pro vaccination and think they are selfish and short- sighted, esp as we all live in Central London, and not an isolated island.

We had a huge argument with bro and SIL mid last year on account of their refusal to vaccinate and have not spoken since.
Our view is that it’s one thing them demanding that we respect their parenting choice, but when that decision has potential to impact on us (and others), that’s where we have an impasse.

SIL has never been particularly friendly but claimed that our decision not to want to be in their company was us ‘alienating their son’.

My parents are not particularly helpful. My mother (worried that she will also get blacklisted from seeing non vacc grandson if she criticises their decision) says that bro and SIL ‘have done a lot of research’ and that in any case we have no idea who is or isn’t vaccinated at all the classes we attend (ie, what difference does it make).

Christmas was very difficult, as you can imagine. Not sure how to resolve this going forward.

If you're fully vaccinated then I'm not sure how seeing the child is going to affect you whilst ttc/pregnant.

However once baby 2 is born I fully understand your concerns and would understand not seeing the child at least until the baby has had the first full set of imms, it's not about avoiding every scenario there might be an unvaccinated child, it's about not placing your child at risk from a known worry.

Yanbu

This is clearly causing you a lot of anxiety which isn't helpful to your health and TTC

You be both said your part and have different views.

Keep yourself and your immediate family away from your bro sol & baby. Have Skype/FaceTime instead. They shouldn't make you feel guilty. They should also realise that you will want to protect your family.

I'd love to see their research.

Good luck. Herd immunity should keep you safe. Don't lose a brother over this.

You do realise that most people who don't vaccinate their children do not tell anyone, just because of such OTT reactions.

When I was young the only vaccinations around were smallpox, tetanus and polio. My dd's generation also only got a small proportion of the vaccinations around today. So effectively most of us are unvaccinated.

Seriously? What a massive over reaction.

If you went out in to the high street and randomly tested 20 adults, you would probably find most of them aren't vaccinated either (but hey, no one thinks about this, just the kids who are upfront about not being vaccinated)

Whilst the OP might have had all the vaccinations appropriate as a child, it is possible, depending upon her age, that she hasn't been vaccinated against the various strains of meningitis that children are vaccinated against now - HIB, for example.

It might be worth talking to your GP, OP, and asking whether, in view of family members foregoing ALL vaccinations (and let's just hope that we don't end up with Diptheria and Polio making a comeback any time soon, as the toll will be devastating - the increase in TB infections is bad enough whilst it's confined to certain high risk groups, but it will expand in time), it's worth you having a course before conceiving.

I'd also ask whether you've had chickenpox yourself, OP - as contracting it for the first time whilst pregnant is potentially a medical emergency for both mother and child, but it is possible to get vaccinated against it if you come into contact with it whilst pregnant - at which point the benefit of vaccination outweighs any negatives that are the reason they don't currently routinely vaccinate against it.

Adding that it's not actually the vaccine once you're pregnant, it's a dose of antibodies to resist the infection (typing whilst the OH was moving a large bookshelf past me - which is quite distracting when I had no idea he going to be moving furniture around at stupid o'clock).

You’re not over reacting, they are idiots. I would go NC until both your child and yet to be conceived one have had all their jabs. Imagine if their child got rubella and passed it to pregnant you....

I see your point I have s friend well shoukdnsay ex friend with 4 kids who are not vaccinated and all in school.
My daughter is immune compromised and I will it allow play dates with them.

Their children their choice. If you want to avoid them so much have a relationship via Skype.

In my home country no vaccinations =no schools. They had several cases of child death due to eradicated diseases coming back due to unvaccinated people. They are only eradicated as long as the vaccine is used
And I wish it was the same here

I wouldn't actively allow my children around a non vaccinated child, until mine were fully vaccinated.

YABU and very precious. As others have said you have no way if knowing which people you come in contact with have been vaccinated. And you yourself should have had the rubella vaccine if not get it done before ttc.

I am pro vaccination but you are virtue signalying big time with your reKatie's and I feel very sorry for your mum.

As long as your ds1 is fully vaccinated he's fine, and any future baby is fine before birth, it would be prudent however to limit contact completely until at least the baby vaccines are started then restrict with additional hygiene measures until after mmr - but remember lots of people don't do mmr (I'm not agreeing but it's true) so not worth a family rift over, you could be exposed anywhere)

Unfortunately they are idiots. My baby got a mild version of one of the vaccinated diseases. The vaccine saved her from being very poorly indeed and the experience was still bloody awful. Anti vaxers can often be far too blasé about the impact of some of the diseases. If you read some of the crap online you get the impression all you need to starve off some of the very dangerous diseasss is some vitamin C and an organic diet. Makes me so angry that there is so much bollocks out there.

In my home country no vaccinations =no schools

Oz? I also agree that (without formal assessment and documentation from a GP supporting abstention) it should be a requirement to enter state school system in UK.

@WonderWoman2019 European country
I wish I had been to Oz!

Actually quite a lot of us over 50 yr olds will be immune to measles as it was a common illness when I was a child.Me and my brother and sister all had it as children .

It does sound unlikely that you and SIL are unlikely to sit down over a cup of tea and the vaccine inserts swapping CDC, cochrane and PubMed links but you do need to work out a way to navigate the relationship. It's a tough one!!

You are overreacting massively and I say that as someone who is strongly pro vaccine.
You should have been vaccinated against rubella so the pregnancy is not at risk.
Your older child has been vaccinated.
A newborn who is breastfed will have immunity from its mother for most of the pre vaccination time.
The likelihood of you contracting illness from her children isn’t high.
The likelihood of suffering significant harm is relatively low of a disease is caught.
Herd immunity is important but so is parental rights to make decisions regarding their own children.
Try being more reasonable and putting it in perspective.

@zzzzz the law is more complex than that. They would not missed school and those children are safe amongst a class of vaccinated children.
So the law is actually in favour of those that can't be vaccinated.

Furthermore @zzzzz
A family member of mine can't have more vaccines and has an over reactive immune system.
This person is in huge danger around non vaccinated people.
We are relying on other people's protection.