To ask for advice re PILs?

[Stormwhale]

Just a disclaimer, I am pregnant, hormonal, tired and there is a long history of us making an effort with the PILs, but it not always being an easy relationship. I can go more into that if necessary, but it will be very long.

Dd (5) is fond of PILs, but is wary of fil as he can ignore her boundaries when it comes to tickling, or rough play to the point where she is upset. He just doesn't seem to naturally know how to relate to her without all the rough play. I will always stop him when I see this happening, same as I would with anyone else.

Over Christmas he asked dd (without talking to us) if he can come and collect her from school and walk her home one day a week. She agreed. This then escalated to him telling her that she could then come home with him sometimes and stay over (this has never happened before) to which she said no, that she didn't want to. We told her that was absolutely fine, and she didn't have to go anywhere she didn't want to.

Last week we got a phonecall to tell us that on Friday pil will be coming with to collect dd from school, and will then start on his own the next week. There was no question, it was an order. This put our backs up and dh said no, that hadn't been arranged and wasn't convenient.

At the same time I started to feel very anxious about the whole thing. I'm worried that dd has been struggling at school a bit since going back after Christmas and seems quite emotional at the minute. Dh and I ended up having a disagreement as he feels we have already agreed to it. We have since spoken more and are more on the same page. He understands that I'm struggling a bit with anxiety at the moment, my hormones are all over the place and this is a stressful situation.

So yesterday Dh starts getting repeated FaceTime calls from fil. He didn't answer as it wasn't convenient. We were out for two important birthday celebrations. He also received messages from mil asking what day fil can come with to the school so he can start collecting her the next week. He replied briefly, explaining where we were but didn't specify a day. He did pop over there yesterday evening though, but unfortunately was met with a barrage of abuse off of fil about him not answering the FaceTimes and how he wants to see his grand daughter, he hasn't seen her in two weeks. Dh replied that he will have to wait as we have been busy. I will just point out that they saw dd 3 or 4 times over the Christmas break including on Christmas day.

I don't know where to go from here. I want a good relationship with them, but it feels like our wants and needs are being trampled all over, and they are being far too pushy. I don't feel comfortable about the pick up situation, but it feels like there is no way out. I'm worried he will use it as an opportunity to convince dd she should be going for sleepovers when she doesn't want to.

The FaceTime issue is getting to me as well, as it feels so intrusive and if we ignore it fil clearly kicks off. It's not always convenient or appropriate depending on what we are doing.

I know it's easy to say just say no to what they want, but it will cause a rift. We have worked hard at the relationship with them while trying to keep our own boundaries, but this feels like it's pushing too far.

Any outside insight would be great.

Thank you for that excellent post, @Graphista you're absolutely spot on.

The more I here about the OP's FIL the more disturbed I am. There's no way he should be trusted anywhere near her DD.

Lizzie some people have no sense of themselves or how others may seem them.

I have drafted the message to pils and shown it to dh. He is in full agreement that we should send it, so we will tonight once dd is in bed. That way we can deal with any response without her witnessing anything.

I think they will kick off, but I have made it clear all the things we are struggling with as a family already, so if they do it kind of proves the whole point. It's not normal to see your family struggling and kick off because you want your own way.

Good luck OP.You are doing the right thing, I believe this with all my heart.

There are red flags everywhere with this. But even if there were not, the fact that you, your DH and your DD are uncomfortable with the behaviour you are being subjected to really is enough.

Op good luck.

The very nature of your fil means he won't back down and they will cause a massive fuss.

However... From your pov I think you will feel massively relieved!!
It's a big first step.

When FIL is kicking off and you are tempted to cave to make it stop, remember that it isn't you giving in, it is you offering up your daughter as a human shield, letting her be open to hurt to protect yourselves from him.

There's a simple response if - when? - he kicks off:

Your reaction illustrates perfectly why we think this is a bad idea.

Please, please don’t cave. Your dd needs you to protect her.

ResistenceIsNecessary
Spot on.
OP (and DH) good luck and stand firm

I couldn't deal with the build up, so I sent the message to try and stop the anxiety building. I had to send it to mil as fil doesn't have WhatsApp and the message was too long to text. I was too chicken to phone. She has come back with a pleasant reply saying she is sorry we have so much on our plate at the minute and they understand. Dh was shocked as he very much expected a row. Obviously I don't know how this will go going forward, but for now it's going better than I hoped.

I feel very relieved. I hate conflict, but I also need to make the right decisions for us as a family, especially dd. It's just all a bit too much at the minute.

She hasn’t told him

It's all rather typical isn't it. The women in the family doing the communicating. The man not proactive or brave enough to talk to his own father.

I also suspect that she hasn't told him. Given his previous reactions it doesn't make sense that he'd take this quietly.

That's her not fil though isn't it.

Fil may push through yet, maybe Mil is finally reigning him in.

Well done op. It's a first step.
Try and forget them now and carry on with living.
The time and stress and worry my in laws have caused us is awful. Time I will never get back. Marring every occasions...

Yeah he will turn up at school on Friday.

Please inform the school he is not to collect.
Wonder of mil has even relayed the message to fil?

Before he would throw a strop over her not wanting to kiss him and once even grabbed her face to force her.

Surprised you didn't cut his hands off right then.

Just echoing almost everyone else here that your anxiety isn't hormone-induced, it's a normal and natural response to some kind of threat (namely FIL). Get comfortable with cold rage, you'll need it as his tantrums peak over this.

Well done op. But I’d prepare yourself as I don’t think she’s brave enough to have that conversation. I would strongly strongly advise speaking to your school first thing tomorrow to ensure he can’t get her (at any point. If he senses resistance he might turn up earlier than the expected Friday).

But also yeah. Why isn’t your dh dealing with this? Why has he left it to his pregnant wife?

The mud slinging at OPs DH is unfair. He is dealing with the fall out from his own childhood, his own father is controlling. I would happily take over if necessary in the circumstances.

What I mean is, FIL is extremely controlling and OPs DH has taken years to come to terms with it and move on. It is probably better coming from OP in the circumstances to avoid FIL trying his work on DH. Just read some of the stately homes threads, you wouldn't say that if it was the OP with the controlling parents

Gosh I feel for you. The insistent facetiming makes it very clear this is not coming from a place of love on his part, it is from a place of want and entitlement. He might not be able to tell the difference, but the rest of us (and you and your dh) can.

I am glad your MiL has backed you up here, or at least, validated your refusal. Stand your ground. As a grandparent above posted, no loving grandparent would demand or insist on anything wrt to seeing the grandchildren. Grandparents don't have rights. They have privileges, and most of them in my experience do earn them, handsomely. Like you own dps presumably. But some plainly do not. Forcing your dd to kiss him. Just no. No no no no no. He doesn't see your dd as a person, but as a service, a service (his rather physical idea of "grandaughtering") that he believes he's entitled to. Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh.

I would ask that you don't insult my dh. He has mental health problems and is doing his best. He has stood up for us in this situation which frankly I'm very proud of him for.

OP

Sometimes MN forget that the DH can also be the victim in situations. I agree with candycane that at least MIL has validated your stance

Candycane I think you have hit the nail on the head of what has always upset me. He doesn't see her as a person with her own feelings, he sees her as a thing that should please him. This is what is so very unacceptable to me.

This sounds very creepy. Grandparent or not. Don't enable your daughter to get abused because you want to dismiss it as hormones. Even if your DD says it's OK, it's your job to ensure nothing untoward is happening here.