I’m the worst mum ever and don’t know what to do

[Endofwitsend]

My kids are out of control and I can’t do anything about it. I’m at my wits end. I can’t make up my mind if we’re too soft or too strict.
They never follow instructions, can’t reason and don’t respond to removal of privileges or talking about things, family rules, sticker charts, routines. They totally rule the roost.
My partner and I never go out because I’m embarrassed to leave them with a babysitter because their behaviour is so bad. They play up every bedtime and short of locking their bedroom doors I don’t know what I can say or do to get them to go to bed. I get so exasperated sometimes, I cry. And sometimes I’m so tired from a day of having them I just ignore it and let them crack on.
They display behaviours that aren’t in any of the books so I don’t know how to deal with them, and I’ve read many many books!
I’ve had many outbursts at them, manhandled them especially when trying to get them in the car/ off something dangerous and I’m ashamed to admit it but smacked them on occasion. All to no avail.
They are 6/5/3
I wish they could go and live with parents that actually know how to provide stability for them and I feel like a shit mum every day. I can’t believe how disrespectful and badly behaved they are and I know it’s all our fault but can’t find a way to get them to stop.
Please ask me for more info if I’m drip feeding but I don’t want to write an essay (I could)
And please help

Just read the thread, what a change OP! Amazing work. I think it will be hard the first few times but if you're unwaveringly, boringly consistent they'll get the message that there's no point to attention seeking at bedtime. You can do this!

Full disclosure, my 3yo dd has 30 minutes of shenanigans every night so we're still not there yet.

I think this also might be the kindest aibu thread I've seen in a while!

Mine are adopted and we practice PACE and therapeutic parenting. I would recommend A-Z of therapeutic parenting. It works just as well with neurotypical children. It eliminates the battle of will. Boundaries are tight, consequences are natural/logical and are delivered with empathy but stuck to every time.

So pleased your night went well! Consistency is key. You're doing brilliantly. Kids are arseholes, it's okay to admit this!

Glad it went well, sounds very positive OP!

OP hope you are asleep in a daze of sublimity with snoring DCs rather than doing whacky races round the bedrooms - thinking of you

good update. hope yesterday and today go well too!

Well done OP. You sound more positive already. I’m finding so much support and ideas from the thread too so thanks for sharing your experiences.

So the time out method is working well with dc1. Dc 2 is a people pleaser and has learned pretty quickly that to avoid the time out its best to do as requested. Pushed bedtime to 8.00 last night and all went down without so much of a peep!! I could not believe it! The reward in the morning works perfectly and luckily they have craft sets etc from Xmas which I used as a reward this morning.
Time out does not work with youngest, he loves the repetition of me returning him, even with the grey rock. He gets into foetal position and waits for me to put him back. He enjoys it
Also after I got him to sit, he began shouting sorry and begging for a cuddle and started hitting himself in the face because I was ignoring him. I saw it through and we got the cuddle and apology but I won’t be using it again.
He’s certainly understands right from wrong and that hitting hurts and that it’s unacceptable but I’m not sure he completely understands the point of the time out.
He hits for attention and I have to react to it don’t I? Especially when he hits older 2. He breaks their models and throws too. Any ideas guys?
And yes I agree I think thread is actually saving our family, no joke.
I would eventually like to phase out the time out move towards “you can sit there for a few minutes until you’re ready to apologise” but at the moment it’s really helping to get the children to understand that no matter what tactic they use, they have to follow instructions.
They earned 15 minutes of tv time yesterday and did not complain once when it was turned off (5 minute warning given)
They do clubs in the week- swimming, gym and running club, am before school so I think the 50 mins of walking per day should surface. Luckily homeward bound, there are options for longer routes and a park in the way so I can always bulk out the exercise with that.
My slow cooker will be my best friend which means we can get home later, dinner prepared and still be getting ready for bed in time.
I can’t thank you enough for being so supportive towards me and not one pair of judgey knickers in sight xx

You are doing brilliantly, keep up the good work.

Regarding the hitting for attention, all attention gets placed on the one being hit, zero attention for the one doing the hitting. Remove the child being hit from the situation, with lots of cuddles and kisses. Ignore the hitting. If he throws and breaks their models - zero attention to him, but massive attention and sympathy / treats to the one whose model has been broken. But alongside this watch out carefully for any time when the youngest resists the urge to hit and praise him immediately, "well done, I can see you were frustrated by not getting your turn, but you didn't hit, I am very pleased with you."

With the youngest thinking that the time out is a new game, just keep repeating till he realises that it will not work. Alternatively ignore him in the feotal position until he moves... Then he gets put back and the time starts again.... The key for him is for you to be much more interesting when he is not in time out, so that the game of mum putting me back, is not as fun as fun mum with no time out. Ignore him hitting himself too during time out, it is a habit to get your attention and needs to stop.

I am very impressed that you have managed to work so well with your older two, keep up the hard work and it will get easier in the long term. Keep the timeouts as they are, they will need them less and you will be able to rephrase it eventually, but not for a while, you don't want them to be slipping backwards. Well done you.

This is fantastic to hear - well done you

I want to encourage you to re-read your first post, and see how much a difference a couple of days has made. Children like the security of clear boundaries. Having no clear boundaries can make children keep pushing them to see where the boundary lies. Your youngest will take longer than your older two to understand that the new boundaries are there to help give more fun time, but keep the boundaries, don't drop them for him with dropping timeout. Keep up the exercise for them and clear bedtime routine, clear behaviour boundaries, rewards for good behaviour and you will reap the rewards with happier, more secure children. Your night out using babysitters will not be long coming, if you keep up the hard work.

Don’t beat yourself up OP.

Dust yourself off and resolve yourself that you’ll crack this. We have all felt like the worst mum or parent in the world many times in our lives if we are honest.

I find it easier to parent if I am organised and on top of the housework. Can DH take them out for a couple of hours on a weekend whilst you crack on or could you afford a cleaner once a week or once a fortnight to help with the mundane cleaning. Give them short simple tasks to do and praise them for good behaviour (helping out toys away, holding hands, sitting in the shopping trolley or whatever. Try it’s not always easy to speak to them quietly and nicely. If you loose your shit (which is easy done, they will surely loose their shit).

Have a set bed time routine tea, play, bath, reading, little cuddle and took them into bed then you and once you crack this you and DH will have your evenings to yourselves.

Mine have had their moments and like you I have had mine but I have also been praised on how well behaved and polite they are on occasion. Hang on in there.

I have just read my first post back and feel many times better already. I don’t think it’s the children so much, I think it was more that I felt so out of control and didn’t know what to do or where to start.
Advice from books/ websites can be so vague so having people micro manage the different scenarios for me has helped immensely.
Now I’m starting to think that this is very much a honeymoon period of the children going along with things because they’re new and exciting and the shock wears off.
Sorry for being dim but do I use time out for hitting (giving it attention) or just give full attention to the victim? And what if the victim is me?

Have you looked at Therapeutic Parenting? Lots of techniques there that I think will help you. Don't be put off by the name, although the technique was originally developed with adopted children in mind, the techniques work really well with all children. They are strategies that provide lifelong skills which are very helpful, particularly when dealing with defiant children! You're doing really well by the way. Well done and good luck going forward.

Well done you taking them to the police station, you are obviously struggling with more than the usual behaviour.sounds horrific tbh and good on you for your perseverance.

Got to agree with all the pp about exercise. Any weather. Do you have a garden? Play mini Olympics with daft races, first to win ten races gets a small treat.

Sorry missed your update about the exercise, sounds all good with what you are doing really!

Sorry for being dim but do I use time out for hitting (giving it attention) or just give full attention to the victim? And what if the victim is me?

I would be acting HORRIFIED and OUTRAGED that hitting has happened, and they get naughty step time out while other sibling gets lots of positive attention. Not poor you cooing, but come over here and let's do this fun thing for 5 minutes while your sibling is in time out. Then they have to come and say sorry, supernanny style. I'd do the same if it's you they hit. All of the above would be harder if you were already in a pattern of ignoring and they escalate it, so I'll watch for other's advice on that too.

Having just caught up i am not at all convinced of my own advice here so really do hope others come along to suggest things

What is the thing about foetal position and time out ... is he not small enough that you can pick him up in that position to put him in the time out place anyway?

He is small enough but it becomes a game. I put him in the spot, he runs into a corner and curls up into a ball. I return him. Again and again and again for about an hour then he finally gives in. But AN HOUR!! All the while the others are stranded.
I’ve tried clothes-lining him WWF style to stop him getting to the curling up corner but that was too much fun too. So I quickly stopped that.
The other two are shouting at me “stop it! You’re hurting him” (I’m not) or going “Mummy, Mummy, Mummy ....” I need to duplicate myself somehow!
So if he hits and I use time out the others are not getting any attention at all because of the attention being on Youngest.
But all in all, they are listening, taking me a lot more seriously and playing properly with their toys so it’s not all bad.

No advice to add as you seem to be getting there! It's really tough having three, I have two and am in complete awe of those who have three and don't lose their shit. Because let's face it, it can be a tag team of bastardy with any more than two. I've seen it with friends, one of whom has a panic room to go and scream in...

With the hitting ignore it all together, and full attention on the injured party, he might try and up the ante for a while and try making it worse, but persist in ignoring. Always use time out for anything you have given warnings for. I would focus on the other children during attention seeking behaviour such as hitting.

The hour of time out will reduce with time, but I personally would try to cut off his fun by saying you are taking a time out, whether you sit here or curl up in the corner is fine, but you are still taking a time out. Refuse to pick him up continually. Keep it to the spot or the corner where he curls up, but don't allow him to start moving it to another location.

So if he hits and you have paid your other child attention, and then decide to do time out, the first run to the corner I would say you can stay there now, and then continue to heap attention on you other children. Don't let him join in the fun until time out is done, grey rock and no attention until time up.

@endofwhitsend

My DD is the same I can’t to naughty step/ time out as she will repeatedly get off the spot and move or try and kick me so it verges on the edge of turning into a wrestling match!!!

My son was no picnic at this age either but if I put him back often enough eventually he would do the time out.

it takes an hour with DD and I am struggling to keep the pace with this as I have a health issue at the moment and waiting on an operation so i am physically hurting myself trying to move her back each time. If anyone has any ideas I am all ears?? but the last 2 days, when she’s been hitting or throwing things I have been letting her know she’s being naughty and that I won’t be dealing with/ talking to her till she calms down and is sorry. I have them just been moving away from her and pottering about, talking to Dh and DS and generally just ingoring her. Rest of the family are doing the same, no attention positive of negative until she’s behaving.

She’s showed her displeasure by doing some high pitch screaming and throwing a few things about but after a few minutes of being excluded she’s apologising!!

The time outs were just nt working as she was hysterical laughing and seen it as a game!!

I also decided that as well as being ignored until she calmed down and apologised that each time she tried to get our attention by throwing something or trying to hit us I was going to say nothing but remove a toy from her.... result? She didn’t give a shit and threw more things at us!! 😂 But tonight I took her little bag or sweeties and told her I would take them away so she thew something and I took some away. This worked and she calmed down quickly and said sorry!! I don’t know if this will help me or anyone else as a long term startagy.... I feel like I am stumbling from one situation to another with them and finding my feet with my sons sens issues but it worked tonight.

On a negative note I spend 4.5 hours this evening getting them to sleep!! Help!! 🤷🏼‍♀️😱😭

Time outs and the Naughty Step don't always work. It's a good start, but can often become a bit of a game.
This website has some ideas https://www.noguiltmom.com/alternative-timeout-discipline/. I do also think sometimes you need to take some space and try to think out the causes of bad behaviour, and whether you are being realistic in your expectations. (Basically try to think like a parent of a child with SN.)

So why is your child trying to gain attention after having been put to bed? Do they think they are "missing out?"
If so then taking time to make bed time very low stimulus, so even if they get up nothing is happening. Maybe the others could be doing something they find boring, homework or jigsaw puzzles. If you know they are going to ask for a drink, go to them with a cup of water and let them sip, there in their room and then go taking the cup with you.

Apparently red night lights can help - worth a try.

It’s horrible isn’t it Millionsofthings? My children couldn’t care less if I took their things away. Nothing is sacred to them!
The hitting is really difficult because it bloody hurts!
My youngest doesn’t hit at school so I know he can control himself. Hopefully those of us on here at breaking point will find a way around it!
I don’t know about the children but all of this daily exercise is knackering me out 😂
I think mine dick me around at bedtime because they can sense it’s my last bit of energy slowly flowing from my being! Kicking me (sometimes literally) when I’m down!
Things going better since reestablishment of authority.
Fingers crossed for all of you tomorrow whose kids are going back to school tomorrow. Wine is ok at 9.30am, no? 😂

I'd advise trying to regain some energy before bedtime. Normally parents are pretty tired by then and it really doesn't work.

As to hitting - acting skills can help, if you act horrified when someone hits. Also talking about hitting the rest of the day, and point out the big ones won't want to play with him if he hits. But also try to see if there are things which trigger hitting behaviour.

But if he can regulate at school then group horror and distain at hitting might work. (I also had a fierce voice which I would use at such times.)

You are doing so well, and 3 is a tricky number of children. You are doing well to see them as individuals and to regain being in control.