I’m the worst mum ever and don’t know what to do

[Endofwitsend]

My kids are out of control and I can’t do anything about it. I’m at my wits end. I can’t make up my mind if we’re too soft or too strict.
They never follow instructions, can’t reason and don’t respond to removal of privileges or talking about things, family rules, sticker charts, routines. They totally rule the roost.
My partner and I never go out because I’m embarrassed to leave them with a babysitter because their behaviour is so bad. They play up every bedtime and short of locking their bedroom doors I don’t know what I can say or do to get them to go to bed. I get so exasperated sometimes, I cry. And sometimes I’m so tired from a day of having them I just ignore it and let them crack on.
They display behaviours that aren’t in any of the books so I don’t know how to deal with them, and I’ve read many many books!
I’ve had many outbursts at them, manhandled them especially when trying to get them in the car/ off something dangerous and I’m ashamed to admit it but smacked them on occasion. All to no avail.
They are 6/5/3
I wish they could go and live with parents that actually know how to provide stability for them and I feel like a shit mum every day. I can’t believe how disrespectful and badly behaved they are and I know it’s all our fault but can’t find a way to get them to stop.
Please ask me for more info if I’m drip feeding but I don’t want to write an essay (I could)
And please help

Have to dash so have only read half way down but I found the Toddler Taming book talked alot of sense and I'm sure there was a chapter on bedtime.
Unfortunately, I've just got rid of my copy but someone else may have it and be able to paraphrase for you.

Yes I agree with the pp that you can't underestimate outdoor play. Long walks/Park/scooters/bike rides etc. Swimming is great too.
I would regard all of the above as essential daily outings not as 'treats' for the kids. Spend as much of the day outside as possible - it really should help with calmer bedtimes.
Mine were mental tonight at bedtime and I realised all they had done exercise wise was walk round B&Q!

in your example:
kid : mum can I have x e.g. drink?

mum: oh let me think how many drinks have you had today? (start to count) um, 5 is quite a lot - quickly change subject.

kid: I'm thirsty.

mum: - well if you are still thirsty after we have done x you can have a small drink.

Child- Mummy can I have X?
Mum- No, we haven’t time/ you’ve had enough/ too messy etc
Child- Oh, that’s not fair I WANT X
Mum- I can see you feel it's not fair and are cross.

Acknowledge their feelings about it, but don't enter discussion. Think of a distraction.

Mum: Help me put these socks in pairs.
or Let's do a jigsaw together.

To the cuddles scenario, yes cuddles are free when you are not whinging or behaving badly. I think they need to know NO is really NO. Don’t feel you need to give a reason why every single time. You are the parent. No is no. Once this is firmly embedded you can explain. But I want X, start with NO. And because Mummy is the boss and she said so.
This sounds cruel and mean but it feels a little like they are overwhelming you. So don’t explain yourself to small children. Don’t make excuses. Assert yourself and maybe be a little bit authoritarian. When they respect you, you can let go a little and parent more gently. For now you really really need to clamp down.

So if they wet the bed, sleep in the wet bed or take the duvet and sleep on the floor.
If they take the seatbelt off you just sit by the roadside.
Absolutely no TV in the morning.
If they are not ready, leave the house with them in their PJs and tell them they can explain to their class why they are dressed like that (take the uniform in a bag).
It all sounds a bit draconian but I think if you don’t get back control now then in a few years there will be even more chaos.

When mine were in the 7-11 bracket we always used to go out after tea before bath. DS was and still is a terrible sleeper (he has ASD but not diagnosed till 12). We would go out for a walk or a scoot or with the bikes. Or an hour at the park or the beach then straight home and bath and story in bed. I still used to read to them until they were older.

I think coming in from the cold and having a warm bath helped them feel sleepy. Any leftover energy had been used up. Being read to is more soporific than reading. If I can't sleep i put on a podcast and I'm off!

I wonder if they'd like the attention of being read to like the little one. I used to sit in the doorway and read with the landing light on so it was dark in their room and then stay there after on my phone until I was sure they were asleep so I could nip any nonsense in the bud.

Are they sharing a room? My.son went through a really bad patch and was setting his sister off so I used to put him to sleep in my bed then sleep walk him through to his room when I went to bed. Luckily they have their own rooms now. This does only work if you have a child who sleeps well once theyre asleep and won't wake too much when you move them.

So sorry for you OP. Hopefully you got the little sods to bed tonight.
Your visit to the police station story made me laugh.
Have you thought about writing a blog ???

Regarding the 'mummy I want etc etc' I would in this situation just talk to them, explain why they can't have whatever they want. Probably I would have to explain to it more than once and be patient but generally ignoring them makes everything worse. If we listen to our kids and don't ignore them I find - in time - they will do the same to us .. usually!

Agree with some of PPs. They know that they can tire you out and you'll either ignore / agree. So they continue to do it until you tire out. The only solution is not to give up for quite a few weeks and follow straight with consequences, to the point where the kids start believing that this a new you that won't crash under pressure and therefore they stop going so far. The good thing is that a that age they accept the changes and if you really follow through, in a few months they will really assume they cannot push you so far.
The age is challenging. You have them all at different stages of pushing boundaries. The 3yo is in "threenage stage", the 5&6yo are starting to be more independent and assert their personalities.
Hugs, it must be so hard X
I'm feeling also a bit similar and only have two same age. It's the constant noise, running around and permanent mess that makes it hard for me

You need to be more instantaneous woth consequences, and they need to be tangible. The seatbelt incident is a classic. Once out of the station: business as usual. They’re too young to reason, put two and two together and follow through.
Consequences need to be instantaneous, and they need to be positive, or as a direct result to what the child is doing. No punishments (nobody can be 100% consistent, and they’re seeing it as a challenge).

At bedtime, make the actual going to bed process as lovely as possible. Really cosy bed, hot water bottle, stories, lots of cuddles and kisses. Then tell them explicitly: This is your last kiss okay, it’s time to close your eyes (not just ‘go to sleep, they have no control over that).
After that, it’s going to have to be the supernanny routine, no shouting at them, no interaction, just ‘it’s bedtime’ and back to bed they go. Don’t cold shoulder them completely, but make it as boring as possible. No extra stories, no drinks, no dramatics. If they wet the bed, change it with minimal interaction. Over and over, back to bed, dull grey rock. If they disturb each other shouting or banging, leave them to it. But the minute they’re out of bed, back they go. It’s not a quick fix, it’s a game of waring them down and teaching them they have literally nothing to gain by getting up or messing about.
It’s really really tough, but they will stop, eventually. Have a wine and chocolate ready for you and OH when they’re finally out!

I never ignore my DC (well not deliberately) seems to make kids more hyper, would me too.

I think you have to divide and conquer. Right now they’re a mob because they are “the kids” but there’s so much difference between 3 and 7!
If the youngest thinks it’s not fair the oldest is up later so what? They’re not the same age so they shouldn’t be the same. The youngest needs to be trained. You need more of a 1:1 relationship with each rather than trying to control 1:3.

I should say that I have never had to do the above. I put my oldest in semi ‘time out’ (I would sit with him till he calmed down) and enforced a few rules v v v strictly. No hitting. No throwing. And no tearing (books/destroying stuff). That’s it really.
These would result in a ‘time out’ sans warning. The rest I would give a warning for/distract/divert/speak firmly. He’s a pretty well behaved 7 year old (nearly) and I rarely have to tell him off for bad behaviour. Sometimes he gets a little too silly but that’s it. But I feel like the hard work went in earlier.
No 2 is entering his terrible twos so I shall let you know. He’s less obedient but he too knows that when Mummy says no it is a no. And no amount of tantrumming will change my mind.

In addition to super nanny I’d read how to talk so kids will listen. In terms of I want... it gives techniques such as empathising that it’s disappointing when you don’t get what you want, or yes, ice cream sounds great, we’ll definitely have one on saturday.

Do the oldest play any video games? I swear that the lure of video games meant I had complete control over my kids. I let them play for one hour a day but if they were naughty they lost their computer 'privilidges' for the day and if they continued to be naughty they would lose it for a week. I used very clear and very consistent warnings and I never gave in. If your kids aren't as interested in computer games perhaps there is something else that they like that could be used to encourage them to be well behaved.

The other thing I did was try and make them think about their options and how they effect other people. If they did something naughty I'd sometimes discuss it with them later and get them to tell
me what they could have done differently. I sometimes felt I bored them into submission. 😬

I also used time outs. They were very successful with my kids but I know some kids won't do them. Very occasionally they would put themselves in time out. 😂 My eldest lad did it a few times as he worked out it was worth a timeout for the pleasure of shoving his sibling. 😒

BTW - you screaming and being physical with them has to stop. I know some people think 'smacking' is ok but it isn't. Smacking is a less threatening way of saying hitting. It's not ok to hit anybody let alone a child. Your kids will remember and that's not ok.

I know it's hard. I had four kids close together and it was mayhem at times.

Firstly, get rid of all the parenting books. I bet you’ve found them contradicting, confusing and written for robotic children. All children are different and so many factors play a huge part in a child’s temperament, behaviour and well being.

I picked up in the fact that you’re unsure whether you are being too hard or too soft. This could be a big part of the problem. By accident you’ve given your children mixed messages.
Children are like sponges (incredibly absorbent ones) They soak up everything and anything from a very early age.
We have 5 kids and believe me, there are moments when I feel like lobbing each one out of the window but when those moments arise, it really is as a result of how feeling, more so than how they are behaving.
When I’m reactive, it’s chaos. When my sleeves are rolled up and I’m ready, it’s suprisingly far easier.
Your 3 are fairly close in age and all still really young, and so they will all be literally bouncing off one another energy and behaviour wise. Following and competing with one another.
My children hated stickers bizarrely so sticker charts never worked.
When my 3 older ones were young, I’d slap their wellies on, pj’s on, torches in hand (cheapie ones as they get dropped) ‘take a couple of spares to avoid melt downs’ and we’d go for a walk straight after tea. Even if it rained, we didn’t care, puddle splashing was great. Wet clothes can dry, mud can be washed. By the time we’d get home, that energy surge had depleted.
Other tips, for a rare treat, I’d give one a bowl, box of eggs, flour, dried pasta etc and let ds crack the eggs including egg shells, pour in water, mash in flour ( you get the picture) kids find it very satisfying. They don’t slways expect to be allowed or encouraged to make a mess. Usually crafts, baking etc are so controlled.
Friday nights we’d camp in the lounge and watch a movie with snacks but only if they’d all been good. They loved this and in fact as the older 3 grew into their teens, their friends would stay over and pile in. Drive me nuts lugging the mattresses down every Friday but it was worth it.
My kids loved these 3 things and would smile like little angels to ensure they got them.
Don’t be hard on yourself. It can be bloomin tough. You’ve got this x

No is a complete sentence. I do find with my kids it doesn't help to explain too much. As in can we have a film. No. They gob off plenty don't get me wrong.

Amazing carer I know never raises her voice ever just continues repeating put your shoes on or whatever.

You can't praise good behaviour enough you really can't. Even dd1 picking up dd2 spoon and putting in the dishwasher with her own stuff 'oh that was soooo helpful I really appreciate you did that' I see her puff up with pride.

I'd say the tv doesn't go on in the morning until everyone is dressed and ready and if they mess about there won't be time.

Bedtimes, have you tried story tapes? (well I guess they are not tapes nowadays but you know what I mean!). My son was terrible to get to be when he was younger (severely autistic) and the tapes did help him to settle. I think it was more soothing than having me reading to him and if he didn't stay quiet and listen he'd miss bits of the story! We did put a gate on his door so he couldn't just keep coming out of the room as well. Mind you, his elder sister was always really good so I didn't have the problem you have of them winding each other up so I think other posters' suggestions of trying to separate them is worth a go.

Regarding bedtime: just as a suggestion to break current routine, and try something new, how about putting all the beds in the same room, and the game the first one to go to sleep gets a surprise in the morning. (carrot!), and that anyone not going to sleep by 7 o'clock, then they will have to go to sleep in their own room (stick) rather than having the sleep-over together. You have to sit in the open doorway, light off in room, but hallway light taking away the "frightened of dark" excuse. You get to sit with a book and read. The first one to push to see if they can try normal delaying tactics, gets the warning that "the others will win if they are not quiet, shhh", next just gets a firm "shhh" and a strong mum is boss look. The third just gets the look and the indicating to be quiet (finger to lips) but no sound. If they ask you a question it is a shake of the head, ideally with continuing to read your book. Act more interested in your book than what they are up to where possible. If a child is not settling then your husband takes them to their own room and sits at their doorway. Hopefully they will go for the reward. I have done this technique successfully with lively 5 year old twins and a 7 year old whose I was caring for short term and had issues going to bed. All children are different and it is not just about parenting, so don't worry if you have to try a few different things to find what works for you and the children.

With regards to the seatbelt, the older ones are at an age they should be able to do up their own seatbelts (and do up the 3year olds possibly?). So when they undo it, I would just pull over, don't get out of the car, just tell they you are waiting for them to do the seatbelt back up again. And wait for however long it takes. Ideally this would work best if they were on route to something they enjoy (swimming/park???) that they mutually actually want to get to. If luck is on your side one of them will tell the other to do it up so they can go. The only proviso for this is that the door locks are on both sides, so that they cannot open either car door from the inside if they get out of their seat. Otherwise just ignore, ignore (reading book trick again) until they get bored. Only issue here is if they physically hit each other when you might need to intervene, if so, take the children out without that child next time if possible.... try again with the two more co-operative children. Stick to it, without changing and they will eventually get bored of the game of trying to get mum's attention by unbuckling the seatbelt.

Just to clarify I was not suggesting that the surprise was a carrot, just that the bribe is the carrot of the carrot/stick plan.

Mum- No, we haven’t time/ you’ve had enough/ too messy etc

I'm not sure if your battle plan is just for the bedtime routine or to use all day long?

If it's all day long I would say pick your battles and only give a firm 'No' if you really have to otherwise come to some sort of compromise so they know they are being listened to and have some control over their lives.

You're absolutely not a bad Mum, a bad Mum wouldn't give a rats arse. Mine are all older now (28, 19 and 16) but your post took me back to when my younger two were small. Jeez they were little bastards - I'm still not sure how they (or I) survived. The best advice I can give you is "consistancy". Whatever method you use to get them to bed (IMHO I'd focus on bedtime first, everything else is easier if you know you have a bit of peace in the evening) STICK TO IT. If they spot a chink in the armour the gang of three will be after it.
Something I found hugely useful was audio books, (for some reason mine loved Dr Seuss). When I finally bit the bullet and decided enough was enough (at around the point I was seriously considering giving them away for free on FB) this is what I did (amended because you have 3).....
6:30 - Youngest - told to have a wee, asked if they want water because Mummy is going to sit with them, just them for a 10 minute cuddle while we start listening to the story. Ask them if they are really ready for a special Mummy cuddle because once Mummy sits down THERE IS NO MORE GETTING UP! Put on the audio book and cuddle for 10 minutes. Ask them to remember the rest of the story so they can tell you in the morning, say goodnight, give a kiss AND LEAVE!!! Leave the audio book on.

Repeat at 7 and 7:30 for the other two. Make a massive fuss of the ones who have stayed downstairs with Daddy - "oh look how grown up you are, being able to stay up later than Johnny, and playing so nicely with Daddy..... blah blah blah........ Trick here is to have something engaging for them to do with Dad for the 10 mins you are upstairs.

I used to burn my own audio books onto CD - timing them to last 45 mins of short stories or 1-2 chapters of a longer book for the older one. They still got up and down like yo yos for a while but it was soon pointed out to them that they'd be a) missing the rest of their story and b) I'd be far to tired in the morning to hear the end. Took about a week of returning them to bed for them to crack. Best of luck to you x

I’ll cuddle you when you stop screaming at me and asking for X
I love cuddles but I don’t love you screaming at me

Waits
Waits
Have you stopped? Great let’s have that lovely cuddle now.

My girl is 10 and has always struggled with bedtime and sleep. After trying everything and going to the doctors several times the doctor suggested if she isn't going to sleep until almost midnight then don't do bedtime until 11 o'clock. Sounds crazy but it meant we weren't having hours and hours of faffing around. Bedtime is currently 10 o'clock. We let her do stuff before bed that would make most people shudder - watch tv, go on her Nintento 3DS, listen to music. Sometimes she writes stories, builds Lego, draws pictures (all in her bedroom). We don't bother with all that bathtime routine because it just hyped her up and was another thing that was making the evening ' all about her'. Obviously she older but taking away the idea that the evening is all about 'bedtime routine' (and all 'about her') we have reclaimed evenings. She is happy. We are happy. She is sleeping better which is making some of her other issues better.
To most people this probably all sounds nuts but basically not making bedtime such a big giant event and if your kids are still up building Lego at half 8 - if they are calm and relaxed while doing it then that's better than the running around the house contantly wanting a drink/wee /your attention.

It's the holidays bringing everything to a head; they are less tired and mentally occupied so are playing up, you have them for longer so are more tired which makes you snappy and less likely to enforce consequences, they feel even more adrift because of no school routine and the feeling they can more or less do what they want, and round you go.
I have no advice but I just wanted to echo those who say you write really well and I laughed at some of your posts. You WILL sort this. And yes, kids are little shits at times.