DW told us her conception date.

[ImUpset]

I'm Male. I'm a member for a long-time as MNHQ will no doubt clarify if asked.

DW has been in my life for over 20 years, DSS is 22 and has been in my life since just before he was 2. DD is 19. Over Christmas (DSS not present as lives many miles away) DW told myself and DD her conception date for D(S)S was her birthday - a non-special date in the year (eg: DDs was my birthday over the Christmas period). Over our lives together this has never come to light, and I'm pretty upset as a result. Her ex was very violent and alcoholic during their relationship, no part of their sons' life since 18 months, and apart from a handful of months when DSS was 14 (during which he sought to split us up, acknowledged by social worker who ended contact after school expressed concerns) no contact.

DSS has been raised as my DS, and seen me as such from incredibly young age both in wordage and behaviour, mirroring his sisters' behaviour. Should note he was never encouraged in any way to do so.

So, am I being unreasonable in being upset? Or should DW have been more reserved after so long? Not sure how I'm going to, or supposed to, feel when her birthday rolls around each year.

I appreciate that (some) men may have insecurities around the paternity of their offspring and this insecurity may, on occasion, be entirely justified.

But that consideration doesn't apply here. So what's left?

Exactly.

@StuffingSandwich
With that logic, I agree. I think it was nothing more than a clumsy wording though. Or some pre-battle bravado - I think it takes some courage to walk in a thread like this on MN an d come out a man

What is puzzling me in part is that you seem to think it would be OK to remember the date of conception if it was a "special" day, but your wife's birthday isn't a special day. Why on earth not?

I think it was nothing more than a clumsy wording though

Whilst I admire your optimism and generosity of spirit, men who start any communication with "As a man..." or "Speaking as a man..." generally mean to be heard exactly as they speak.

They're separating out their opinion from those of women as being more valid - "look, these women don't know what they're talking about. I'm a man. Listen to me".

Otherwise, there'd be no need to say it; no need to state his authority position as a man and there'd be no need to reassure the man posting that we don't 'get it' but he does.

As the OP has failed to return and explain what exactly it is that he is upset by, every single person on this thread is merely speculating.

This 'man' who turned up is doing no different. He isn't the expert on how another complete stranger feels any more than any woman on here just because he is also a man.

If the OP were to return, that would make all the responses more meaningful!

But that consideration doesn't apply here. So what's left?
I can only guess. I think that "male-pattern", for the lack of a better word, sexual jealousy is much more competitive in nature (in a typical case, obviously every case is individual). At least in my own experience.
So there was a rival here who was thought to be safely defeated - there's no contact with DSS, and the OP even mentions that DSS is very like much him in "wordage" and whatever, no matter what his biological parentage is. All hostile attempts to separate the couple were successfully rebuffed.
And then, whoa - the enemy returns, and through the effort of no other than his own faithful wife. Could it be that she remembered him with warmth all these years, replaying in her head THAT SEX on every subsequent birthday, maybe even when having birthday sex with her now-DH. So he's a rival once more.

Well I'm a woman and I think I understand, not sure I can explain it though. It's just the idea that from now on the OP will connect his wife's birthday with the fact that 'his' son was conceived on this day with her drunken, violent ex. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that this is just about sexual jealousy, although that may come into it.

He also now knows that she has probably thought about it every year on her special day, and it's something he wishes she hadn't told him about after so long.

He's worried that her birthday from now on will represent something different to him, and yes he has made it all about him but that's not something that only men do.

But, empa, he says her birthday isn't a special day. So that doesn't seem to work.

I know exactly which date my son was conceived. There are situations, both good and bad , where circumstances are such that one will know.

We don't have enough information to know if this is a situation where specific circumstances will point to a specific date or if ir is just a counting back 9 months general date.

I don't understand why the wife would have instigated the conversation now Over Christmas (DSS not present as lives many miles away) DW told myself and DD her conception date for D(S)S was her birthday

This seems a weird topic of conversation- why does his wife think her daughter needs to know/ is interested in this? What purpose was there in raising this?

The OP's reaction is a bit OTT but I can understand why he is puzzled by his wife raising it at all.

I suspect that it is because:

If she can remember the date she conceived, she may also be able to remember the details of the sex that led to that conception.

It means that the sex she had with her ex wasn't instantly forgettable and all memory of it hasn't all been erased since being with him.

If she remembers it, then she might think about it.

If she thinks about it, then she might also compare it with the sex she has with him.

Maybe he's concerned about how he compares sexually to her ex if she can recall a specific sexual encounter.

And I think that is an element of sexual jealousy that many people (women included) can relate to!

So, am I being unreasonable in being upset? Or should DW have been more reserved after so long? Not sure how I'm going to, or supposed to, feel when her birthday rolls around each year*

You're going to feel how you feel and everyone is entitled to feel how they feel. I don't think you're unreasonable to be upset, we can't help being upset - even if others don't understand why.
What you need to do though, is not let it spill out and spoil the future for yourself or your wife, and most especially on her birthday.

I can vaguely understand why your wife's birthday is now going to hold some significance it never has before (you knew it happened, now you know when). It's just a connection that's now been made that you'd rather not have in your head.
Many people have to live with far worse things on a daily basis.
It was a long time ago. It only matters to her because her son was conceived. I think the problem is that you've let it get out of perspective in your mind - (in the opinion of most people here, certainly).

So I don't think YAB completely U but you do need to get it in perspective for everyone's sake.

They're separating out their opinion from those of women as being more valid - "look, these women don't know what they're talking about. I'm a man. Listen to me".

That isn't what the poster you are attacking was doing. He wasn't saying "listen to me" any more or less than you are doing. He was just making clear he was a man.

This seems a weird topic of conversation- why does his wife think her daughter needs to know/ is interested in this? What purpose was there in raising this?

I'd assume it was part of a larger conversation and he has just picked out the part that upset him.

It's very unlikely that his partner came downstairs one day and announced, "So, just thought you'd all like to know..."

It's far more likely that it was a conversation that started, "I was in the hairdressers and overheard someone saying..." that evolved, as conversations do, to her sharing something of her own experience.

It was more than likely a passing comment that she didn't give a second thought to rather than a Big Announcement.

Why now? Because after 20 years she should be able to trust you with a personal piece of information.

There is no "supposed" on feelings but since you are upset about it that suggests that up til now you have been shutting out some aspects of your wife's past and pretending they didn't happen. And you expect your wife to do the same, but maybe she doesn't feel you need to be protected from it, or not any more.

He was just making clear he was a man

Why?

Why do you think he felt the need to do that?

Why do you think he felt the need to say that women wouldn't 'get it'?

I never come on here and state "As a woman and a mother..." and, whilst this is Mumsnet, there are an awful lot of posters who are not Mums for a number of reasons. It doesn't need to be stated and usually isn't.

OP, it would be great if you could come back and explain some more.

Some of us sort of get it, or do we?

YABVVVU. I've never heard anything so absurd. Have a cup of tea then read your post.

He wasn't saying, "I'm a man so I might have a different perspective". He said, "Look I’m a man OP... Most women aren’t going to “get it”

There are a great many things about the experiences of women I would never claim to understand.

Congratulations, that's the most insightful thing you've said so far. You don't understand the experiences of women. I've got news for you - a lot of people understand the opposite sex a lot better than you do. Maybe they're more grown up, or find it easier to put themselves in someone else's place, or better at listening, or something.

Goodness OP this is a bit silly
The very fact she realised the specific conception suggests she wasn’t having much sex and given he was an alcoholic abuser the fact she remembers it being her birthday may well mean it wasn’t a romantic happy occasion. Poor woman.

Grow up and get over yourself. 22 years ago she had sec with her then husband.

Sheesh.

There are a great many things about the experiences of women I would never claim to understand.

Might this also include the root of women's sexual jealousy..? Such that he might not be able to assert it is so different to men's that women wouldn't "get it" after all?

@StuffingSandwich
I think you are approaching the truth with this last post. I'd still argue that a man, on average, would be more vulnerable to a scenario like this. I don't think many women are overly sensitive about their sexual prowess / performance. I, for instance, am convinced that even if I display sexual abilities of a dead fish, I am still totally unforgettable . I overreact (in my head, of course, and it is totally irrational) to other scenarios, for example, where my partner ex's is significantly more attractive physically, and he remembers it fondly out of the blue.

This seems a weird topic of conversation- why does his wife think her daughter needs to know/ is interested in this? What purpose was there in raising this?

Sample conversation:

DD: Oh, poor Kim. She just texted me to complain that no-one gave her any birthday presents AGAIN. It must be so crap having your birthday on 25th December. I really think parents should have more consideration for their kids when planning to have kids.

OP: Oh, that wasn't a problem for us. You were conceived during the Christmas holidays, on my actual birthday.

DD: Totally gross, dad. I DID not need -

DW: And your brother was conceived on MY birthday!

DD: Why are you telling -

OP: OMG, whyyyyyy are you telling me this??? Your birthday is forever ruined for me by intrusive memories of you having sex with your violent, abusive boyfriend that you haven't seen for 20 years. Waaaaah! **

Of course, it could have been an entirely different conversation. But at this stage, looks like we'll never know.

bit disingenuous there, Stuffing - how is he going to explain it from a man's perspective without declaring he's male? Plus generally men on here tend to find that it goes better for them if they do mention they're male. Not always, obviously! But some male poster on another thread has also said the same - that they've learnt to mention early on that they're male.

i never come on here and state "As a woman and a mother..." and, whilst this is Mumsnet, there are an awful lot of posters who are not Mums for a number of reasons. It doesn't need to be stated and usually isn't.

Being female is pretty much the default and plenty of posters do state they are mothers. I rhink it is quite reasonable for him to say upfront he is a man.

I think I understand what this thread is about, it's the first entry in the 2019
'Most confusing or nonsensical thread of the year award'

It's an early entry, but it's a strong contender already.