To think that trans people should use the disabled toilets ?

[PerverseConverse]

Actually it's not me that thinks this but this is what is currently being argued on Facebook.

Disabled facilities were hard fought for and I don't think they should be used by anyone else. However I'm not sure what the solution is but it's definitely not to use the disable facilities.

These are examples of what has been said:

"Personally, I believe that if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them cuz I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not they were transgender but if the person looks like a man in a dress and heels, I’m sorry but they should use the disabled toilets. There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims thus I say give transgenders access to the disabled toilets so that they don’t cause anxiety and distress for trauma victims. That is reasonable is it not?"

And:

"What is wrong with using the disabled toilets anyway? People often use them when the cue is too long for the regular toilets but now people have a problem? I believe it to be a very reasonable request and I have known transgenders male to female who have requested to use the disabled toilets for the very reason of they were thinking of those that had been traumatised by men. They did that of their own choice and were being considerate towards others and I applaud them for it. They have said that once they look more feminine, they will consider using the women’s toilets but only once they look like a woman.
The difference between those that look like a woman and those that don’t is that, unless you look at their medical records, you can’t tell that they were born a man and thus, it doesn’t cause anxiety as you pass them in the toilets but someone who is quite obviously was born a man could do that.
It is not an unreasonable request in order to ensure that everyone is comfortable in their environment and thus, no one has to suffer anymore than they already are psychologically. I believe there is nothing wrong with a transgender using the disabled toilets, we expect the disabled to go into a totally separate room instead of sharing with the rest of their gender so why is it now so unreasonable asking that transgenders do the same.
However I believe it to be unreasonable to ask a PTSD victim to be put into a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also believe that it is unreasonable to request a transgender male to female to use the male toilets. Thus, do give me a solution that would not potentially cause someone to suffer psychologically that isn’t the use of disabled toilets"

I'm too tired to even begin to argue with this viewpoint right now.

It's from Posie Parker's Facebook review yesterday. Not sure the link will work but :

m.facebook.com/greenhousedeptford/

You'd have to scroll to her review.

I don't understand why all toilets aren't unisex single cubicles like a disabled loo anyway. It makes far more sense and solves the entire issue.

Able-bodied people should not use the disabled toilets, unless for baby change when that’s the toilet with a baby changing station, as it often is.
Unless a transgender person is disabled or changing a baby they should not be in there.

No, I know that some people worry about trans rights encroaching on women's right but the solution isn’t to instead have trans rights encroach on disabled rights.

Disabled facilities should be for people with disabilities because they can’t use the other loos.

I flew somewhere recently and they airport had got round this issue by having ladies, gents, a disabled loo and another separate gender neutral toilet. I think this or separate cubicles with basins in each will have to come in eventually to meet everyone’s needs.

Every toilet should be fully accessible, unisex and available for everyone's use.

Nothing to do with the trans aspect, but "disabled" toilets aren't toilets for the sole and exclusive use of disabled people, anyone and everyone, disabled or not, can use them if they need to. I won't hang around and not use a disabled toilet if I need the toilet and it's there.

What @MeredithGrey1 said:

No, I know that some people worry about trans rights encroaching on women's right but the solution isn’t to instead have trans rights encroach on disabled rights.

Creating Unisex loos in venues seem to be the most sensible approach. Individual stand alone facilities, as opposed to cubicle fashion

No, I know that some people worry about trans rights encroaching on women's right but the solution isn’t to instead have trans rights encroach on disabled rights.

This.

Imo they shouldn't be in the disabled toilets or the ladies. There should be a unisex toilet in addition to ladies/men/disabled facilities.

oh another group of people to be added to the disabled toilet (i know i have spelt that wrong .)
ffs

I've just started a thread on this a place where I work it's women, baby change and a disabled toilet (as in singular toilet) men next door have a urinal and toilet cubicle to themselves

I don't have a problem with trans people using the ladies. I think it's really petty to make an issue of it! The cubicles have locks on the doors and nobody gets naked in the sink area!

How would you police it anyway?? Some trans people look feminine and you would assume they are female unless you saw their genitalia.

The disabled loo IMO should be reserved for people with disabilities or mums with young children who need somewhere to contain them/get out a potty/put the buggy. And anyone else who has anxiety re using the cubicles, or a condition like ibs that needs privacy

I don’t know about the. transgender thing. But I am very surprised at the comments on the disabled loo. I would have no qualms whatsoever about using it if it was available and there was a long queue for the regular loo

As someone who has a disabled son, I definitely don’t agree that use of disabled facilities is right. Besides, trans people are NOT disabled.

I don’t have an answer but no. Not disabled toilets.

Just have unisex single cubicles and have done with it. Which is what we have in our office.

`AuntyJackiesBrothersSistersBoy so agree

Every toilet should be fully accessible, unisex and available for everyone's use.

That would take up far too much space.

Though having unisex toilets with a basin in each cubicle is a good idea with some larger cubicles for those who need more space.

Not sure how you would stop those doing drugs in the larger cubicles though which is a problem locally in the baby change.

Isn't it odd that Unesco advise that the lack of single-sex toilets is a huge impediment to girls' education, but women in the West are just supposed to accept unisex toilets, or men using the Ladies.

Having single-sex toilets allowed women to take full part in life outside the home. The number of sexual assaults on women increases dramatically with the introduction of unisex facilities.

The vast majority of reported sexual assaults at public swimming pools in the UK take place in unisex changing rooms, new statistics reveal.

The data, obtained through a Freedom of Information request by the Sunday Times, suggests that unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities.

Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.

Anywhere that women are vulnerable is an opportunity for predators.

Sorry - link that that quote came from
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Being trans is not a disability.

Disabled toilets are for disabled people.

To the poster who is able and uses them anyway, I really hope you don't ever have to cope with a wheelchair/stoma/inflammatory bowel condition and have to shit yourself because an able person is being entitled.

OneStep did you even read the OP?

'if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them'

'There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims'

I was at a university open day the other week. Toilets were male, female and non-gender or something like that. Without fail, only men used the non-gender ones that the uni had so thoughtfully provided. The women (or maybe even trans who looked like women!) went into the women's toilets.

I remember my late friend who used a wheelchair all the time, we used to go out and she'd try to go to the disabled loo and mostly men (as in able bodied) would be coming out zipping up their flies sometimes having left the toilet in a terrible state. she said very rarely a mother with a pram was in there which she felt was fair enough, but most of the time when she had to wait outside it was for men who were too lazy to walk the few more steps to the men's toilets.

No wonder they are saying trans can just used the disabled loos.

*Being trans is not a disability.

Disabled toilets are for disabled people*

Absolutely this.

I had, on occasion, to use a disabled facility for a short time and I felt incredibly guilty for doing so.

I go to London Fields lido and there they have male and female changing rooms which include toilet cubicles (and a couple of changing cubicles, but most people use the open plan area). I assume the mens are the same. They also have 2 gender neutral disabled combo loo/ changing rooms (private big cubicles). At my local college they have a disabled combo toilet and shower.

The most important thing about disabled cubicles is that disabled people have priority, not that anyone should police who goes in there.

I am disabled. Recently disabled toilets at my work have had labels added to their doors inviting everyone to use them in a flush of virtue signalling. Result. There's a queue of able-bodied people for whom it was the nearest toilet. To get to the nearest women's toilet I would have to negotiate a long corridor and stairs - not okay!. I have a muscle wasting autoimmune disease. I have lost much of the strength in my pelvic floor muscles. If I have to wait for long I wet myself. I am infuriated by this. There is no excuse - none - for able bodied people to use accessible toilets. So unless you are disabled - KEEP OUT.