To think that trans people should use the disabled toilets ?

[PerverseConverse]

Actually it's not me that thinks this but this is what is currently being argued on Facebook.

Disabled facilities were hard fought for and I don't think they should be used by anyone else. However I'm not sure what the solution is but it's definitely not to use the disable facilities.

These are examples of what has been said:

"Personally, I believe that if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them cuz I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not they were transgender but if the person looks like a man in a dress and heels, I’m sorry but they should use the disabled toilets. There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims thus I say give transgenders access to the disabled toilets so that they don’t cause anxiety and distress for trauma victims. That is reasonable is it not?"

And:

"What is wrong with using the disabled toilets anyway? People often use them when the cue is too long for the regular toilets but now people have a problem? I believe it to be a very reasonable request and I have known transgenders male to female who have requested to use the disabled toilets for the very reason of they were thinking of those that had been traumatised by men. They did that of their own choice and were being considerate towards others and I applaud them for it. They have said that once they look more feminine, they will consider using the women’s toilets but only once they look like a woman.
The difference between those that look like a woman and those that don’t is that, unless you look at their medical records, you can’t tell that they were born a man and thus, it doesn’t cause anxiety as you pass them in the toilets but someone who is quite obviously was born a man could do that.
It is not an unreasonable request in order to ensure that everyone is comfortable in their environment and thus, no one has to suffer anymore than they already are psychologically. I believe there is nothing wrong with a transgender using the disabled toilets, we expect the disabled to go into a totally separate room instead of sharing with the rest of their gender so why is it now so unreasonable asking that transgenders do the same.
However I believe it to be unreasonable to ask a PTSD victim to be put into a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also believe that it is unreasonable to request a transgender male to female to use the male toilets. Thus, do give me a solution that would not potentially cause someone to suffer psychologically that isn’t the use of disabled toilets"

I'm too tired to even begin to argue with this viewpoint right now.

It's from Posie Parker's Facebook review yesterday. Not sure the link will work but :

m.facebook.com/greenhousedeptford/

You'd have to scroll to her review.

This is the third thread re this I’ve seen by the way. This should not be allowed to become common practice. It’s an easy get out clause for businesses - build a gender neutral toilet if you must, but don’t hijack disabled toilets which people with disabilities need.

A friend of mine works in a university not far from us and she was telling me last week that at the students requests should install gender neutral toilets as well as sex segregated spaces in each building. For most part, the gender neutral ones remain largely untouched. She is thrilled as one of them was put in next to her room space at the end of the building and it's a dept populated my majority males. So she has taken full advantage seeing as she has been the only person to use that she knows of (she said the loo roll is always neatly folded like she left it). So she has some nice artificial flowers, posh soap, a little drawer uni with pare tights and sanitary stuff. She LOVES the gender neutral toilets! But i feel it would be different if anybody else started using "her" loo.

I think there is possibly an argument that being transgender is, in fact, a disability as it’s body dysmorphia.

I am currently physically disabled (I may or may not recover, not sure yet). I am also female suffering greatly from ptsd (not expected to recover from that at all).

Unless I am mistaken and please correct if I've got it wrong, but I thought the disabled toilets were designated such because traditionally, the regular toilets could not accommodate a wheelchair or someone who needed a carer for assistance. The disabled toilets were never intended to be a "no waiting zone" for people with disabilities. That's not a problem because most of the time I've noticed they are empty, nobody is ever using them!

The other thing, is that trans keep insisting that the number of transgendered people is small. So until every little corner business can implement 4 different bathrooms (baring the shops which are so small that they only have one single use for everybody) then speaking for myself, I'd much rather keep the peoplewithapenis who claim to feel girly for five minutes on the weekend in the disabled toilets.

Anyway, everyone has their own opinion on the subject, and that's mine. I would hope that people who don't really need to use them would save them for those that do. But weighing the likely hood of some men taking advantage of the transloophole to pervs on young girls in the women's, versus people in wheelchairs having to wait a minute or two once in a great while, I'm okay with with waiting.

Another thing and I'm truly truly sorry for being so rude to you wonderful ladies but after another recent thread on the topic, I started wondering if some of the people complaining about trans in the disabled toilets, might just be trans people here under a "false flag". If there's one thing I've learned, is that some transactivists will say or do ANYTHING if think doing so will get them what they want. And the thing they want above all else, is to segregate women away from men, and then to join the women.

Oh and incidentally, LGBT Youth Scotland, who go into primary and secondary schools to brainwash Scottish children on trans issues, said in their submission to UK Women and Equalities commission that cross dressers to be included in the definition of transgender. Stonewall agrees with this.

So, if you want cross dressers in the ladies, crack on.

Why should I wait to use a disabled loo because the rest of you are all quablling over sharing able bodied toilets

I would genuinely hope the majority of decent people would use an able-bodied toilet if they could. I have rarely used an accessible facility and only when unavoidable.

It’s not a disability that requires lower sinks, an alarm cord, a rail or extra space though, is it Cherry?

Ohello, disabled loos are not just adapted for wheelchair users.

Trans people just want to take a piss or have a dump just like everyone else. Give it a bloody rest

Transwomen with a penis is neither disabled or a woman. They can take a piss or dump in the toilets meant for people with a penis, AKA ' The Mens'

excuse me. To clarify, I'd rather ALL the trans use the disabled/third space. They're not female and they don't belong in spaces for females. If we're going to let some men in then why keep any of them out?

Daniel Mascato, Karen White, etc etc Allowing trans in is allowing the worst sort, the ones who love trespassing women's boundaries and committing violence.

Third space? Or, you know, campaign for a fourth space.

Disabled toilets are physically needed by disabled people. What part of that is hard to grasp?

some of the people complaining about trans in the disabled toilets, might just be trans people here under a "false flag". If there's one thing I've learned, is that some transactivists will say or do ANYTHING if think doing so will get them what they want.

The other big thing they want is a screenshot of evil transphobes. They are watching every thread and posting here in numbers, trying to goad and entice people into saying the wrong thing so they can put it on Twitter and show the world what evil bigots MNers are and how they are just poor defenseless victims.

It’s like minority pass the parcel. Women get dumped with it and don’t like it so pass the problem onto the disabled. How about creating gender neutral spaces in their own right instead?

'Evil transphobes' - that would be me, NOT wanting cross dressing males in the ladies. (and for the screen shotters lurking, I will repeat that Stonewall and LGBT Youth Scotland campaign for the inclusion of cross dressers in the definition of transgender.)

Buggerbrexit It’s like minority pass the parcel. Women get dumped with it and don’t like it so pass the problem onto the disabled. How about creating gender neutral spaces in their own right instead?

Good question. And one a lot of women have been asking for ages (and vocally saying we'd support the drive to provide them, although it isn't actually our problem to solve, as many people seem to assume).

But it isn't about having facilities. It is about men being validated in their own feelings and stuff anyone else who has a problem with it. As long as they get what they want everyone else can go hang.

yes Bugger. Those spaces are designed specifically for wheelchairs but anyone who is physically or mentally disabled can use them.

It's interesting, trans say they need a space away from men, and whelp there ya go, a space away from men which does not impose or trespass against other people's boundaries. And yet they insist on cramming into women's shower cubicle when we are naked and have already said we don't consent. funny that.

It's interesting, trans say they need a space away from men, and whelp there ya go, a space away from men which does not impose or trespass against other people's boundaries. And yet they insist on cramming into women's shower cubicle when we are naked and have already said we don't consent. funny that

Well quite. Trans women want a space away from men, and are happy to force their own maleness on other women.

The logic just never stacks up:

Women are being told that they should accept a male bodied person in their sex segregated spaces.

Men are not being told that they should accept a male bodied person claiming to be female in their sex segregated spaces.

Male bodied people who claim to be female say that they are not safe in male sex segregated spaces.

Female people say that they are not safe letting male bodied people into their sex segregated spaces.

All of these problems are because of males, not females.

None of this is caused by females.

So why are the females having to sort it out?

This is indicative of the issues faced by disabled people so often. I am so greatful for the people who campaigned so much for improved access and facilities for disabled people. Sadly though they are now being eroded by people who believe that their “group” needs it more, or companies who take the lazy approach of stuffing everything in together with no thought of the impact that has on the people who actually need it.

Shotsfired thank you for the info

I am disabled, Sirzy. And frankly, it's only a stopgap measure anyway. It takes time for businesses and government buildings to plan where to put the new fabulous transloo and to secure funds. As a disabled person, I am happy to make the sacrifice in order to spare young girls the experience of being perved on. or worse!

I am disabled. Recently disabled toilets at my work have had labels added to their doors inviting everyone to use them in a flush of virtue signalling. Result. There's a queue of able-bodied people for whom it was the nearest toilet. To get to the nearest women's toilet I would have to negotiate a long corridor and stairs - not okay!. I have a muscle wasting autoimmune disease. I have lost much of the strength in my pelvic floor muscles. If I have to wait for long I wet myself.

This is surely against the equality act, and certainly not allowing for reasonable adjustments for disabled people in that workplace. Aaaagh. Stop. The. World. As a woman with a disability myself I'm feeling at the end of it with all of this. Disabled toilets are for disabled people, who need that space in order to go to the toilet. I'm sighing at the number of people who still think it's fine to 'nip in to the didabled' when they don't feel like standing in a queue. The more people doing that, the more disabled people are once again marginalised and left in even greater pain and distress than previously. It's really, really not OK.

Trans people should campaign for their own space if they want to. These spaces were fought so hard for and it feels like they are gradually being pulled away from us

Those spaces are designed specifically for wheelchairs but anyone who is physically or mentally disabled can use them.

No ohello, they’re designed specifically for a range of disabilities. the majority Of wheelchair users should be able to use them plus people with other disabilities. So the handles are easy to use for people with little manual dexterity, there should be contrasts for people with sight problems etc. Thankfully thinking has moved on and we no longer consider only wheelchair users to be disabled.

Whilst everyones quabbling about who can and cant use dia
Disabled toilets and wether we should have gender neutral toilets , there is a distinct lack of "changing place" for older children and adults that have continence issues nobody seems to care about that

Slight tangent but the word to describe people without disabilities is non-disabled, it’s not “able-bodied” (not all disabilities are physical as I’m sure everyone knows).

Sorry to be pedantic but as I’m sure we all agree, language matters!

Emma - as a disabled person, I say able bodied, because they are. I couldn't give a shit about how able or disabled people are described. Just words.

Perhaps concern yourself more with accessibility and rights than language and we might get somewhere without people being permanently offended.

Yours, a cripple.