To think that trans people should use the disabled toilets ?

[PerverseConverse]

Actually it's not me that thinks this but this is what is currently being argued on Facebook.

Disabled facilities were hard fought for and I don't think they should be used by anyone else. However I'm not sure what the solution is but it's definitely not to use the disable facilities.

These are examples of what has been said:

"Personally, I believe that if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them cuz I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not they were transgender but if the person looks like a man in a dress and heels, I’m sorry but they should use the disabled toilets. There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims thus I say give transgenders access to the disabled toilets so that they don’t cause anxiety and distress for trauma victims. That is reasonable is it not?"

And:

"What is wrong with using the disabled toilets anyway? People often use them when the cue is too long for the regular toilets but now people have a problem? I believe it to be a very reasonable request and I have known transgenders male to female who have requested to use the disabled toilets for the very reason of they were thinking of those that had been traumatised by men. They did that of their own choice and were being considerate towards others and I applaud them for it. They have said that once they look more feminine, they will consider using the women’s toilets but only once they look like a woman.
The difference between those that look like a woman and those that don’t is that, unless you look at their medical records, you can’t tell that they were born a man and thus, it doesn’t cause anxiety as you pass them in the toilets but someone who is quite obviously was born a man could do that.
It is not an unreasonable request in order to ensure that everyone is comfortable in their environment and thus, no one has to suffer anymore than they already are psychologically. I believe there is nothing wrong with a transgender using the disabled toilets, we expect the disabled to go into a totally separate room instead of sharing with the rest of their gender so why is it now so unreasonable asking that transgenders do the same.
However I believe it to be unreasonable to ask a PTSD victim to be put into a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also believe that it is unreasonable to request a transgender male to female to use the male toilets. Thus, do give me a solution that would not potentially cause someone to suffer psychologically that isn’t the use of disabled toilets"

I'm too tired to even begin to argue with this viewpoint right now.

It's from Posie Parker's Facebook review yesterday. Not sure the link will work but :

m.facebook.com/greenhousedeptford/

You'd have to scroll to her review.

zzzzz, can you explain why For starters, people are discussing our toilets as if we have no say. Secondly, I take at least 20 mins (and that's with a helper) and feel embarrassed enough as it is with a queue of disabled people and parents with babies waiting. Thirdly, the "pass the parcel" scenario as Buggerbrexit said. As in no one wants the transpeople so pass them to the disabled toilets as if we count for nothing.

The main reason is I take ages and would have disabled people, parents with crying children and also transpeople all waiting for me. It's embarrassing. Another reason is, I don't understand why their issue has become our issue?

There's been quite a few comments about how non-disabled people should under no circumstance use disabled toilets.

I am not disabled, and as a rule I do not use disabled toilets. However, I do occasionally suffer from bad urine infections. I'll stay at home when I can, however sometimes they will hit when I am out and about. If there is a long queue for the women's toilets, if I am suffering I feel I have no choice but to skip the queue and use the disabled toilet, as I am in pain and feel that I will wet myself.

Is this acceptable to those of you who are disabled? I really hope I haven't offended anyone when I've done this!

I am not disabled but I have a radar key that I was given because I have a bowel condition that means I may need the toilet urgently. I've only used it a couple of times in dire situations. If I can make it to the women's toilets, I will.

Another reason is, I don't understand why their issue has become our issue?

This a thousand times. This has absolutely nothing to do with women.

Single sex toilets came into being because men are dangerous to women, when women are in a vulnerable situation like using the loo. No matter what gloss is put on it, TW are men and we can't tell which are safe and which are not.

TW say they can't use the Gents because it's dangerous for them, because men are dangerous. Well, yeah! But if we say the exact same thing we're monsters.

We're not human shields for men who don't want to conform to their gender norms. Let them educate men to accept a broader definition of what it is to be a man, rather than forcing themselves into the Ladies and Disabled toilets. They're oppressing all of us who are lower down in the pecking order, by pretending to be the most oppressed of all. Waving their male entitlement around.

Sorry, meant to say that what goes for the Ladies goes x 10 for the Disabled toilets.

from my point of view being temporarily ill is not the same as being disabled and so I don’t think you should be using resources that are for the disabled community automatically

Actually I think that’s quite unkind, whilst only a temporary condition, the symptoms for that poster are such that she may need a facility.

That is absolutely what the accessible loo is for!

As I said earlier I had to use the accessible loo on occasion. I broke my ankle - again temporary but in certain places made using the ladies impossible.

Sorry posted too soon. It’s always possible to start using a facility with no queue and come out to find people waiting.

That is no different from if another person with a disability was using the loo.

Obviously all other options should be exhausted first but I see no difference in the instance of going to the toilet in between a temporary and a non-temporary condition

In addition to providing appropriate space and facilities, a disabled loo also needs to be readily accessible to users who need those facilities and not hogged by anyone else.
I was at a university open day the other week. Toilets were male, female and non-gender or something like that. Without fail, only men used the non-gender ones that the uni had so thoughtfully provided. The women (or maybe even trans who looked like women!) went into the women's toilets.
This is my experience too. I'm doing a course at university. There are gender neutral loos around the campus, which only seem to be used by men, and a single sex loo in the library. There's always a long queue to use the women's loo, which is just great if you're rushing to a lecture.
www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/womens-right-work-toilet-bathroom-victorian-london-wwi-factory-protest

So if a TW should use the gents, then should a TM (or a man pretending to be one) use the ladies?

The objection to trans people using disabled toilets would surely be that the AREN’T disabled?

Sorry, that's exactly what I meant. I may not have worded it well.

Zzzzz
That said I personally wouldn’t have the slightest problem with someone sick, injured, or even just overflow from another over subscribed toilet using the disabled toilet if they were quick and it was empty. I would have a HUGE problem with them making any disabled person wait in queue instead of letting them go first.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. One poster is saying she suffers frequent bladder infections and when she needs to go she NEEDS to go or risks wetting herself. Which to my mind is the perfect reason to be using the accessible toilet.

But you are saying that a disabled person trumps her. Not all disabled people have bladder or bowel issues. Many could easily wait for a few minutes to allow somebody who has a problem - temporary or otherwise use the facilities.

I don’t think it’s unkind to point out being temporarily incapacitated is not the same as being disabled. It’s a fact and if you can’t see the difference between the two I’d find it fairly difficult to know where to begin.shock. That said I personally wouldn’t have the slightest problem with someone sick, injured, or even just overflow from another over subscribed toilet using the disabled toilet if they were quick and it was empty. I would have a HUGE problem with them making any disabled person wait in queue instead of letting them go first

I think you’re misunderstanding my point. I’m saying that at the point of using a bathroom, it comes down to ability to use a facility.

So I broke my ankle as mentioned. A couple of places I go regularly for meetings have the disabled loo on the ground floor and ladies/gents up a very narrow flight of stairs. I couldn’t get up the stairs - it didn’t matter whether it was temporary at that point.

I don’t think a broken ankle is anything like being disabled. Do you?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

In the situation I outlined, the issue wasn’t what caused the lack of mobility in THAT ONE MOMENT. It was that neither myself or someone in a wheelchair could access the loos upstairs.

And yes, during that period I used the priority seats on a train because I couldn’t fit in the normal seats.

but if there is they should take priority

It’s an accessible facility. Meaning available for use who need it.

If you’re really saying I shouldnt use it as part of a normal queue, that pretty much renders me going further and further back?

Or if I should give priority to someone who wants the priority seat, where do I go on crutches?

Just to ensure understanding, a priority seat isn’t those that fold for a wheelchair, it’s simply seats for people who need more space (the sign shows elderly, pregnant, etc)