To think that trans people should use the disabled toilets ?

[PerverseConverse]

Actually it's not me that thinks this but this is what is currently being argued on Facebook.

Disabled facilities were hard fought for and I don't think they should be used by anyone else. However I'm not sure what the solution is but it's definitely not to use the disable facilities.

These are examples of what has been said:

"Personally, I believe that if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them cuz I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not they were transgender but if the person looks like a man in a dress and heels, I’m sorry but they should use the disabled toilets. There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims thus I say give transgenders access to the disabled toilets so that they don’t cause anxiety and distress for trauma victims. That is reasonable is it not?"

And:

"What is wrong with using the disabled toilets anyway? People often use them when the cue is too long for the regular toilets but now people have a problem? I believe it to be a very reasonable request and I have known transgenders male to female who have requested to use the disabled toilets for the very reason of they were thinking of those that had been traumatised by men. They did that of their own choice and were being considerate towards others and I applaud them for it. They have said that once they look more feminine, they will consider using the women’s toilets but only once they look like a woman.
The difference between those that look like a woman and those that don’t is that, unless you look at their medical records, you can’t tell that they were born a man and thus, it doesn’t cause anxiety as you pass them in the toilets but someone who is quite obviously was born a man could do that.
It is not an unreasonable request in order to ensure that everyone is comfortable in their environment and thus, no one has to suffer anymore than they already are psychologically. I believe there is nothing wrong with a transgender using the disabled toilets, we expect the disabled to go into a totally separate room instead of sharing with the rest of their gender so why is it now so unreasonable asking that transgenders do the same.
However I believe it to be unreasonable to ask a PTSD victim to be put into a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also believe that it is unreasonable to request a transgender male to female to use the male toilets. Thus, do give me a solution that would not potentially cause someone to suffer psychologically that isn’t the use of disabled toilets"

I'm too tired to even begin to argue with this viewpoint right now.

It's from Posie Parker's Facebook review yesterday. Not sure the link will work but :

m.facebook.com/greenhousedeptford/

You'd have to scroll to her review.

having a temp injury like a broken leg does open people eyes to what it is like to be disabled.
dh broke his, I had to wheel him round the hospital. I said to him at the time "now you know what it is like for dd"
during the time he couldn't walk, of course he used disabled toilets, he had too. (now he's better he wouldn't )
some one who has a temp disability or illness has as much right to use disabled facilities as someone who has them for life. saying otherwise is daft.
but using them cos you have a pram or.......are Trans.......no

Can you not get upstairs with crutches?

Can you not get upstairs with crutches?

Ordinarily yes. In the two places in question no. Very steep and narrow stairs. Full cast over knee meant I simply couldn’t do it.

I meant how would you know if they’re fully transitioned.

I don’t think there is a quick fix, if there is then it’s certainly not “just use the disabled loo”.

Let’s not descend into disability top trumps.

If someone has a broken ankle/leg/whatever which causes them difficulty of course they should use the toilet which is easiest for them to use. Someone on another thread talked about urgency and weak bladders and was met with “that’s not a disability”.

Do you know what, if someone is going to wet/soil themselves if they can’t get to a loo quickly enough then why is that not a disability? Under pip they’d be given points for it, so it makes sense for them to use the disabled loo if needed.

While a broken leg will heal, the person is physically impaired and disabled until it does. It might be temporary but it being temporary doesn’t make things any easier while they’re affected by it.

No they should use the toilets for whatever their proper sex is

So if a TW should use the gents, then should a TM (or a man pretending to be one) use the ladies?

If they want to. I would imagine a transman who passes would use themens, if they don't pass they would use the womens as it would be unsafe in the mens. If men have an issue with this, its up to men to speak up. I only care about women in this context, and mens problems aren't mine to solve.

How would you always know by just looking at someone if they were disabled or trans, or had a medical issue, or had a temporary illness ?

How would you always know by just looking at someone if they were disabled or trans, or had a medical issue, or had a temporary illness?

I don’t think that’s neccessarily the issue, more not creating a culture where people who don’t need an accessible facility don’t use it.

I don't have a particular issue with the scenario of someone with a broken leg using the disabled toilet (speaking as a parent of a disabled DS), it can be argued they are disabled albeit temporarily.

However I have a HUGE issue with any non-disabled people (including trans people) using the facilities and us being forced to wait....not just entitled men either, a recent occasion was a group of girls commandeering the disabled toilets to get themselves ready for a night out.

er when the debate on broken legs/ankles/whatever began. If someone is on crutches (for example), whether it’s a broken leg or a long term disability, they’re still in need of disabled loo facilities in that moment

I’m disabled myself, if I had to wait for someone one crutches to use a disabled loo I wouldn’t be bothered one bit. I don’t look physically disabled - I have no way of knowing if someone’s crutches are needed a result of a disability or a short term injury. In terms of access, someone with a disability isn’t more worthy than someone without.

Unless everyone declares their disability in the queue how would you decide who went first?

If you NEED that space due to disability or a temporary condition then use it. If you don’t need it don’t use it.

In that particular scenario I disagree, same on a bus. I see your point of view but where does it end? I’m “ambulances disabled”, is a wheelchair user more entitled?

I was sexually assaulted when I was young, I'm also autistic and I'm frightened of being near others, especially men. I have bought a radar key to use the accessible toilet if this legislation goes through. I would also refuse to share a hospital space with a man/men as I can't be around them without being fully dressed and well enough to leave an area if I feel scared.

It seems to me that women will end up unable to use women's toilets because they'll be taken over by all kinds of men - trans, cross dressers, teenage lads, perverts etc. Men seem to need to access all spaces at all times regardless of how uncomfortable they might make someone feel.

I was freaked out enough by men being present on the post natal ward, I'm not sharing any more spaces with them.

Ambulant.

If you have a willy use the men's, if you have a fanny use the women's.

I think this criteria would make it simple and user friendly enough? If in doubt use the disabled?

I really hate unisex loos and the last think that I want to see is someone dressed as a women flashing her very male cock at me.

I'm still waiting to hear why their issue has become our issue?