To think that trans people should use the disabled toilets ?

[PerverseConverse]

Actually it's not me that thinks this but this is what is currently being argued on Facebook.

Disabled facilities were hard fought for and I don't think they should be used by anyone else. However I'm not sure what the solution is but it's definitely not to use the disable facilities.

These are examples of what has been said:

"Personally, I believe that if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them cuz I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not they were transgender but if the person looks like a man in a dress and heels, I’m sorry but they should use the disabled toilets. There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims thus I say give transgenders access to the disabled toilets so that they don’t cause anxiety and distress for trauma victims. That is reasonable is it not?"

And:

"What is wrong with using the disabled toilets anyway? People often use them when the cue is too long for the regular toilets but now people have a problem? I believe it to be a very reasonable request and I have known transgenders male to female who have requested to use the disabled toilets for the very reason of they were thinking of those that had been traumatised by men. They did that of their own choice and were being considerate towards others and I applaud them for it. They have said that once they look more feminine, they will consider using the women’s toilets but only once they look like a woman.
The difference between those that look like a woman and those that don’t is that, unless you look at their medical records, you can’t tell that they were born a man and thus, it doesn’t cause anxiety as you pass them in the toilets but someone who is quite obviously was born a man could do that.
It is not an unreasonable request in order to ensure that everyone is comfortable in their environment and thus, no one has to suffer anymore than they already are psychologically. I believe there is nothing wrong with a transgender using the disabled toilets, we expect the disabled to go into a totally separate room instead of sharing with the rest of their gender so why is it now so unreasonable asking that transgenders do the same.
However I believe it to be unreasonable to ask a PTSD victim to be put into a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also believe that it is unreasonable to request a transgender male to female to use the male toilets. Thus, do give me a solution that would not potentially cause someone to suffer psychologically that isn’t the use of disabled toilets"

I'm too tired to even begin to argue with this viewpoint right now.

It's from Posie Parker's Facebook review yesterday. Not sure the link will work but :

m.facebook.com/greenhousedeptford/

You'd have to scroll to her review.

Radar keys are a pain in the bum. I was on an old boat, baby needed a bum change, the baby change facilities were in the disabled loo. Some asshole had nicked the key.

Toilets should be unisex, women's and disabled.

Disabled, need theirs protected

Women, who've been assaulted ptsd etc need their own space, not to mention nobody wants to be cleaning period covered hands next to a man. Girls (10+) out with their dad would be ok in the ladies.

Unisex, men probably don't have an issue sexual assaults, mum's wouldn't feel so bad about going in with 10 yo boys who are too big for the ladies. There is never a massive use for the men's anyway so if women feel they want to they could make use if the unisex facilities.

I'm disabled and don't have a radar key. Nor do any of the (many) disabled people I know.

No. It's hard enough for us disabled people to find a vacant adapted loo at the best of times.

I've often wondered how many posters have actually met or worked with a trans person ? I have and the first point is that they are generally nice people. Last couple of places that I've worked have had male, female and unisex facilities. I've never heard any complaints. Some facilities that I have visited abroad in hot countries, have shared hand basins that are outside in the open air. When you are at home, do you have more than one toilet facility, most families share male, female, trans...

No. It's hard enough for us disabled people to find a vacant adapted loo at the best of times.

And even if it is free it being suitable is still a worry. Ds is “only” in a wheelchair or SN buggy, nothing massive but many we struggle to fit in. My dad has a catheter and many are ill equipped for him.

So many have heavy doors which then open outwards so you can’t see who is behind them.

And that isn’t getting into those who have much more complex toileting needs than us who need full on changing places toilets to be able to be able to be toiletted with dignity.

Re-radar keys what i missed from my post is I know how frustrating I found it having a baby in desperate need of a change. I can't imagine the frustration / desperation of an adult who needs to access a disabled loo but who doesn't have a key / has forgotten it / can't find it.

Where I am many of the baby change facilities need a radar key to access them.

I don't know what the answer is as many people who don't need a larger cubicle or one not in normal male/female toilets still use the disabled and/or baby change loos.

I'm disabled and have a bowel condition that requires me to get to a toilet when the urge strikes (little warning).

I also use a catheter which to avoid infection, I need to be as clean as possible. Washing my hands then locking a cubicle increases my risk of infection. The tab on my catheter is also easier to use on a nearby sink, too.

I obviously use a disabled toilet. I don't mind anyone using the disabled toilet if they need to (long queues or whatever - in my more able-bodied days I was reluctant to use them even though I was well on the way to developing my condition and would end up having accidents).

What I do mind is men, in particular, using them just for a private shit. Then not making the slightest effort to clean up after themselves. Or sometimes not even bother flushing.

I also have suffered with crippling anxiety and depression in the past. I'm managing to overcome it now, but I can say from experience that these conditions have been more disabling to me in a way than my physical conditions. At least now I can get out most of the time. At my worst I was unable to leave the house for nearly two years.

If your anxiety and depression is bad, you don't have the mental strength to fight for a normal life. A true invisible disability.

I don't want men in a ladies toilet. Unless they've had their penis removed. I don't care what they call themselves. Until they've had the op, they're still male.

Why do I feel like this? I had a friend - male - who I didn't know was into cross-dressing. He was caught flashing in the ladies toilets in our town. Let off with community service (or whatever it was) the first time. Jailed the second.

He was not trans. He just dressed as a woman to make his kink more accessible and thrilling as girls were his target.

I suffer with PTSD after being sexually abused. Every time this issue is brought up I think of girls and women who have been through a similar situation having to share what has always been considered a private and safe place with a man that may potentially be using it for the thrill.

Fekko I can't see how it would really be much different.
•it's not any man, it's any person identifying as a woman. I'm guessing most men will continue to use the men's room.
•There is no gender at the moment to disabled toilets or parent and child changing rooms, so having people that want to identify as female in a female toilet area (not in a shared cubicle) isn't actually all that different.

I love my radar key.

It stops people misusing toilets, & I feel safer going into one in places that would feel dodgy without some sense of knowing the toilet will be less likely to be misused, eg public toilets outside // on lonely train stations etc.

After some pretty scary experiences as a disabled woman out in public alone / with just my small child, I have become more cautious about just how vulnerable I am because I can’t walk and I can’t reverse out of a tight spot quickly etc. Toilets are particularly vulnerable making, as it were.

Society strips me of my gender because I am disabled, and that becomes all I am. I’m not a woman, I’m disabled. Full stop.

However a few people didn’t get the memo about that and then because I’m not supposed to be a woman, so I don’t get any protection as a woman, so I’m doubly vulnerable. Not fun.

Only my personal experiences only maybe, but a few awful people on the street, well when I say people I mean men, a few awful men. I know it’s just a few, compared to how many walk past me and don’t even notice I’m there, but... that minority is too many for me because I’m completely vulnerable to anyone and whatever they chose to do to me.

Which is terrifying, because I’m not protected by being able to just nip into a women’s loo.

I’m not disabled, and do have a radar key.

We use a location regularly that has baby change in the disabled and they too have lost the key.

People with penises should use the male toilets, people without penises should use the female toilets. People with a disability should use the disabled toilets if their disability means they are are unable to access the ones for their sex. It's really that simple.

People with penises should use the male toilets, people without penises should use the female toilets.

Disagree. Biological males should use the men's or unisex toilets.

Cr0c0dile20 - Why do people trot that line out When you are at home, do you have more than one toilet facility, most families share male, female, trans.- Most people KNOW those that are in their homes, there isn't usually a random stranger who walks in off the street demanding to use your toilet! Completely different to out in public.

I'd never come across baby changes being accessible only by radar key before or since. Not been back on the boat either. The point about it being a boat is i didn't have the option to go elsewhere.

If you have a penis, you use the mens', if you don't then use the women'.

I'd never come across baby changes being accessible only by radar key before or since.

I mostly find this happening in shopping centres and pubs.

Apparently radar keys are easily got and no checks. Is that true? If so, what's the point?

my son is trans, he has not entirely transitioned (no willy)but in al other ways looks like a male - he uses the disabled toilet as h e doesn't fit into either gender in 'that' way.
My dd went to a uni open day and said that all of the toilets were non binary, (all the middle age dads were going in and straight back out again, she thought this was hilarious)

Because people don't realise that radar keys are easy to get hold of, so that helps limit the misuse of disabled toilets.

You can buy fake radar keys on ebay for £3

@jux no idea about buying them but they were handed to us by the hospital and I'm sure that's what happens across the board

@zzzzz maybe try asking them?