To think that trans people should use the disabled toilets ?

[PerverseConverse]

Actually it's not me that thinks this but this is what is currently being argued on Facebook.

Disabled facilities were hard fought for and I don't think they should be used by anyone else. However I'm not sure what the solution is but it's definitely not to use the disable facilities.

These are examples of what has been said:

"Personally, I believe that if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them cuz I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not they were transgender but if the person looks like a man in a dress and heels, I’m sorry but they should use the disabled toilets. There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims thus I say give transgenders access to the disabled toilets so that they don’t cause anxiety and distress for trauma victims. That is reasonable is it not?"

And:

"What is wrong with using the disabled toilets anyway? People often use them when the cue is too long for the regular toilets but now people have a problem? I believe it to be a very reasonable request and I have known transgenders male to female who have requested to use the disabled toilets for the very reason of they were thinking of those that had been traumatised by men. They did that of their own choice and were being considerate towards others and I applaud them for it. They have said that once they look more feminine, they will consider using the women’s toilets but only once they look like a woman.
The difference between those that look like a woman and those that don’t is that, unless you look at their medical records, you can’t tell that they were born a man and thus, it doesn’t cause anxiety as you pass them in the toilets but someone who is quite obviously was born a man could do that.
It is not an unreasonable request in order to ensure that everyone is comfortable in their environment and thus, no one has to suffer anymore than they already are psychologically. I believe there is nothing wrong with a transgender using the disabled toilets, we expect the disabled to go into a totally separate room instead of sharing with the rest of their gender so why is it now so unreasonable asking that transgenders do the same.
However I believe it to be unreasonable to ask a PTSD victim to be put into a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also believe that it is unreasonable to request a transgender male to female to use the male toilets. Thus, do give me a solution that would not potentially cause someone to suffer psychologically that isn’t the use of disabled toilets"

I'm too tired to even begin to argue with this viewpoint right now.

It's from Posie Parker's Facebook review yesterday. Not sure the link will work but :

m.facebook.com/greenhousedeptford/

You'd have to scroll to her review.

At the pool the signage actually says gender neutral on the doors, they have a symbol which is like a combination of the male and female symbols.

I would have no qualms whatsoever about using it if it was available and there was a long queue for the regular loo

And your 'couple of minutes' in the disabled loo could make all the difference to whether a disabled person wets themselves and has a really bad day or gets to the loo in time and has a good day.

But hey, who cares. You've not had to queue so it's all good.

I like the signs on the buses in France for the priority seats. They even have a pecking order: War Wounded, then other disabled, then pregnant, then everyone else.

I'm disabled. I use the regular toilets when I can. When I can't, I'm disgusted by the state of the loos. Piss everywhere because mums take their small kids in there instead, stinks of shit because men think it's the perfect private place to hide for a while, and the floors are always wet and muddy.

If trans start using disabled loos as well, isn't that just another man pissing everywhere and with contempt for the (mostly) women who are employed to clean it.

Rant over, sorry.

No, trans people shouldn't be using the disabled toilets. Not sure unisex loos done similarly to disabled toilets is the answer though, just because there would be a lot less of them, and look at the queues we already have!

I don't have a problem with trans people using the ladies. I think it's really petty to make an issue of it! The cubicles have locks on the doors and nobody gets naked in the sink area!

I've got changed in the sink area rather than use a cubicle and unecessarily increase the waiting time for those who actually need the toilet.

Tbh, I'd be less than happy if there was someone who was clearly physically male in there, it would be likely to make me feel unsafe because I was sexually abused. I'm not going to make a scene, I'll just go elsewhere if possible, or wait outside somewhere. Sorry if you find that petty.

Are we absolutely sure that being trans is not a disability? I have been wondering this recently. Are anxiety, ptsd, depression disabilities?

There's also the issue of the single sex bays thing in hospitals, which no-one seems to be debating. This was very hard won, and not that long ago.

Yep, I don't agree with able-bodied people using the disabled toilets either. But do remember there are some hidden disabilities - that seemingly able-bodied man who just came out of the toilet, might actually be disabled.

I'm disabled and have a disabled child and I am completely happy with anyone using the disabled toilets when no disabled person is using it.

It is utter madness to have to stand in massive queues when perfectly functioning toilets are sitting empty.

Give disabled people priority but not exclusivity.

I'm also an advocate for mixed gender facilities.....us disabled people have had to use them for years.

I don’t know why people get so worked up about toilets. When I go to the toilet I shut and lock the door, I couldn’t care less who is on the other side and as long as they have some common courtesy I don’t care who uses it before or after me.

Are we absolutely sure that being trans is not a disability? I have been wondering this recently. Are anxiety, ptsd, depression disabilities?

So even if it is, is it the kind of disability that requires the use of an accessible facility? I know someone who has a prosthetic leg, he uses the gents. I know someone who is registered blind. She uses the ladies.

To me, the hospitals thing is more important, because people are very vulnerable in hospital.

No they shouldn't, I have a disabled son (autism and learning difficulties) he has reached the age where he can no longer come into the ladies toilets with me, so if its just me and DS I have to take him into the disabled toilets.. I still feel guilty for doing it.

They are not "disabled toilets". They are accessible toilets.

Are anxiety, ptsd, depression disabilities

To a point, yes, but obviously not in the same way having a stoma is.

I'm a wheelchair user and I have GAD/PTSD which is very severe. I can understand why people who are severe would find using a disabled toilet less triggering.

However, these are brain chemical conditions. There are SO many people claiming to have these conditions when they don't. They may feel anxious sometimes. That is NOT anxiety.

I find it hard to believe that every trans person has a diagnosed, medicated mental illness that is so severe they need to use a disabled toilet.

I'm disabled and have no issue with anyone using the same loo as me.

If someone has PTSD then they could of course use the disabled toilet. They are as entitled as any other disabled person to do so.

But generally I just find this a big fuss about nothing. Trans women are not in the habit of waving their willies about in public, and what anyone has or does in a private cubicle is no one else's business.

Do trans people consider themselves to be disabled though?

There are different reasons why disabled people need to use the disabled toilet. Many disabled people would be perfectly able to wait in a queue. But some people have conditions that mean they cannot easily wait without pain or an accident. If people who don't need the disabled facilities start using them just because they don't want to queue, then there's a much higher chance that those people will have to wait and obviously that's much worse for them than someone being mildly inconvenienced by queuing. So for the same reason, it's not really the solution to the trans issue.

Though I suppose presumably gender dysphoria would be protected under some sort of mental health discrimination in the same way as body dysmorphia? Some people do use the disabled loo for mental illnesses as well as physical disabilities. But then again there seem to be no actual rules governing the use of disabled loos so people can do whatever they like whether or not it makes anyone else's life more difficult.

sometimes I just wish I was a bear....

It's not easier being a bear. Do you decide to let trans-bears into the same area of woodland? Should the edge of the wood be reserved for bears who are disabled and cannot walk all the way to the middle of the woods? Such dilemmas!

Eggysmom

sometimes I just wish I was a bear....

Look on the bright side, you can identify as one and enter into any bear society you want. Woebetide natal-bears complain, the BRAs will be out in force accusing them of ursphobia.

What's wrong with transgender people using the gents?

I'm not a great fan of unisex toilets TBH. Too many are just rebadged and otherwise unchanged. I had the unfortunate experience of using a unisex toilet recently which was clearly a rebadged gents toilet. How do I know? Because a gent was using the urinal (I actually thought it was the sink initially), when I emerged from the cubicle. Somewhat unexpected.

I've also used the ladies with a fully-male transwoman too. A little disconcerting, even though they were a friend.