To think that trans people should use the disabled toilets ?

[PerverseConverse]

Actually it's not me that thinks this but this is what is currently being argued on Facebook.

Disabled facilities were hard fought for and I don't think they should be used by anyone else. However I'm not sure what the solution is but it's definitely not to use the disable facilities.

These are examples of what has been said:

"Personally, I believe that if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them cuz I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not they were transgender but if the person looks like a man in a dress and heels, I’m sorry but they should use the disabled toilets. There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims thus I say give transgenders access to the disabled toilets so that they don’t cause anxiety and distress for trauma victims. That is reasonable is it not?"

And:

"What is wrong with using the disabled toilets anyway? People often use them when the cue is too long for the regular toilets but now people have a problem? I believe it to be a very reasonable request and I have known transgenders male to female who have requested to use the disabled toilets for the very reason of they were thinking of those that had been traumatised by men. They did that of their own choice and were being considerate towards others and I applaud them for it. They have said that once they look more feminine, they will consider using the women’s toilets but only once they look like a woman.
The difference between those that look like a woman and those that don’t is that, unless you look at their medical records, you can’t tell that they were born a man and thus, it doesn’t cause anxiety as you pass them in the toilets but someone who is quite obviously was born a man could do that.
It is not an unreasonable request in order to ensure that everyone is comfortable in their environment and thus, no one has to suffer anymore than they already are psychologically. I believe there is nothing wrong with a transgender using the disabled toilets, we expect the disabled to go into a totally separate room instead of sharing with the rest of their gender so why is it now so unreasonable asking that transgenders do the same.
However I believe it to be unreasonable to ask a PTSD victim to be put into a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also believe that it is unreasonable to request a transgender male to female to use the male toilets. Thus, do give me a solution that would not potentially cause someone to suffer psychologically that isn’t the use of disabled toilets"

I'm too tired to even begin to argue with this viewpoint right now.

It's from Posie Parker's Facebook review yesterday. Not sure the link will work but :

m.facebook.com/greenhousedeptford/

You'd have to scroll to her review.

No way should trans people be using disabled loos (unless they’re disabled). Not fair to trans people and certainly not fair to disabled people. I’ve always been happy to share facilities with trans women but agree with PP that ideally there should be individual cubicles with sinks that anyone can use.

Trans women are not in the habit of waving their willies about in public

You missed the news about Jess Bradley then did you?

But generally I just find this a big fuss about nothing. Trans women are not in the habit of waving their willies about in public, and what anyone has or does in a private cubicle is no one else's business

Jess Bradley - look them up and then come back and repeat that.

oooh, fairenuff - crossed posts

No, they bloody well shouldn’t.

Disabled toilets are for people with disabilities. For example, they might not be down a set of steps which are hard to negotiate, they have rails, they’re higher, sinks are lower, they have an alarm cord.

If you don’t have a disability and you use the disabled loo you’re a selfish twunt. Don’t try to justify it, you can’t.

Every toilet should be fully accessible, unisex and available for everyone's use

With cleaners for when men piss on the seats and floors.

In response to ‘all toilets should be unisex’, I really don’t think it would be suitable everywhere, for everyone.

At my work, both male and female toilets are tiny. The female toilet has 2 small cubicles and the sink area is very cramped. I’d hate to be in there with a man, or even 2 or 3 who might be waiting to use it.

Yes knowing my colleagues, probably nothing would happen at work, but it’s still that sense of vulnerability of being in a cubicle with my pants down knowing there’s blokes just at the other side of the door and there’s another door further down keeping us all enclosed in a small space.

Ultimately though, I don’t know what the answer is. Whichever way it goes, I think there will always be one group whose rights to safe and suitable spaces will be impeached.

Oh for fuck's sake enough already.
Trans people just want to take a piss or have a dump just like everyone else. Give it a bloody rest.

Trans people just want to take a piss or have a dump just like everyone else. Give it a bloody rest.

Who's stopping them?

I've got one trans daughter and one son with a stoma.

I'm incredulous that anyone could think that my daughter should use the disability toilet and so is she.

Also those of you who are not disabled who use the disabled toilets? Don't. It might look like they are not needed and you might feel your need to pee is super-important but once my son arrives with a leaking bag, he'd cheerfully leak shit on your feet.

I hate unisex toilets. Always piss in the seats. Sex segregated toilets with a gender neutral 3rd option. And disabled.

I'm so sick of the trans issue taking over every fucking aspect of my life, including the bloody definition of woman and not being allowed to have a bloody opinion about it lest I'm told I'm a bigot.

No! I've had enough. And the actual empathy I have for trans people is being eroded due to the aggressive demands of entitled males.

The point a lot of people seem to miss, is that "trans" means virtually anything (see official Stonewall definition below) and that anyone can say they feel trans and there is no way of proving otherwise. And if anyone can say it, then that DOES include the perverts who ejaculate on toilet seats and toilet paper, the men who get sexual kicks from hearing women toileting, the mentally ill people who remove used tampons and towels from san bins and insert them in themselves; and that's not even counting the sexual assaulters and rapists who can wander right in by saying the magic "trans" word even when they are most assuredly not.

I do not want any of them in my toilets for my own safety, dignity and privacy; and for the safety of every other female user.

========
Stonewall definition of trans:
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.^

Then let them just use the toilet that matches their sex as has worked since we introduced them. Problem solved.

Someone who was born a man and lived as a man and even now may be dressed as a man is somehow being tortured emotionally if he uses the men's like he always did. BECAUSE he has realised he feels like a woman?

No they shouldn’t be using the disabled toilets . Unless you have a disability that means you need the space, have a bowl /bladder condition where you need to get to the toilet quickly why wouldn’t you just use the women’s/men’s

I don’t know what the answer is. We are at risk of people taking advantage of self ID and as a pp said opening the cubicle door to a bloke swinging his lady dick at you (or your young daughter) it’s probably not safe for trans women to use the male toilets either though

Flowerfae you shouldn't feel guilty for using them. You have every right to use them. I have to use them because ds can't be left alone.

(Apologies, I don't know how the Stonewall def in my pp ended up with random bolding, that was not my intention)

Trans people just want to take a piss or have a dump just like everyone else. Give it a bloody rest

Who is saying they can’t?

I was at an arts venue in London recently, where they have re- signed /de-assigned, whatever, their toilets by just taking the women/men indications off. I asked where the toilets were - waved to ‘ by the front ‘ . There was a door with WC and the wheelchair sign on it. I took this to mean the disabled ( accessible) facility, which I didn’t want to use in case someone who came under the designation of need, needed it ( getting in a tangle of appropriate language here ) .

I looked around and opposite was another door with WC. Pushed that open and saw a number of men waiting ( the event I was attending had many more men than women, I realised after ) I assumed I had accidentally entered what every else knew was the men’s facilities ( it had been until recently, I discovered) and backed out.

Went back to the original door and found it led to two doors, one with the wheelchair sign and another door with just WC so went in there. Usual row ( 4) of small cubicles plus a general sink and a mirror area. When I had finished in the cubicles, I washed my hands, a woman took my place, and then a man came in, who had to wait : he looked uncomfortable at me being there, brushing my hair and tidying up, I felt uncomfortable doing so right next to him ( you might think I am being over sensitive but it wasn’t the usual relaxed atmosphere of a ‘ladies’ ) but it really also struck me that it would have been very difficult for a woman to adjust a religious/cultural headscarf in that circumstance.

For all those saying there is no problem, just have enclosed larger cubicles with sinks and make up/mirror areas - retro fitting those in existing buildings is very space demanding and expensive, especially in our older building stock. My DHs office building is quite new and only has facilities with a common door leading to a row of large, well fitted cubicles that you could easily change in - it doesn’t feel in the least threatening or difficult there. But for established spaces, other things would have to be sacrificed or at the least the number of cubicles reduced which means more queuing.

Personally I hate taking up the use of a disabled toilet when it is the only space with a baby change station. I am dreading the day that someone who desperately needs to use a disabled toilet has to wait outside for me to finish changing an explosive poo nappy.
I don't think disabled people's rights should be trumped and used as an answer to this debate.

Trans women are not in the habit of waving their willies about in public

Tell that to Jess Bradley, former leader of the NUS, advisor to the Government on trans issues and largely responsible for this whole bloody mess. Jess got her lady penis out on display on the train, at work and other places. Took some photos of her penis and put them on her blog.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6003331/Britains-official-transgender-student-officer-suspended.html

He also wrote this:
"Our relationships with our own genders are similarly fluid and ever-changing: my gendered experience is different at work, when out at a cafe with mates, when walking home at night. Because of gender's dynamic nature, it's not something which can be objectively verified as being true or false, real or unreal. In all of this discussion about who gets to be included in womanhood; we must acknowledge that there is no such thing as a 'real' woman."

• Def has a different gendered experience to mine, I agree - I have never got my lady penis out in public

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jess-bradley/trans-women_b_15486434.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer_us=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_cs=FhdXKMK46DC4M-FuiNzImw

Sorry @MNHQ, I made a typo above. I meant to write 'SHE' before that last quote. Sorry - could you amend?

Yes, trans can include this person. "Suck my dick" said no woman ever Daniel Muscato

unisex single toilets, lovely - piss everywhere in all toilets . I'll look forward to that.

I am disabled and would strongly object to this. A man wearing a dress is in no way disabled. Also, having male, female and unisex would not work as the whole point for the trans activist types is that they would ignore the unisex and go in the female toilets. The VAST majority of people surely want toilets to be segregated as they have always been.

Having a spinal cord injury means I have to use a catheter and have continence problems.
Why should I wait to use a disabled loo because the rest of you are all quablling over sharing able bodied toilets