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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think neighbours are cf snobs? Or are we the problem?

224 replies

TheMammothWithFuzzyLegs · 01/10/2018 09:03

Moved into our house 4 years ago. Over time our neighbours on one side have gone from being a bit over-familiar and slightly cf-pisstaking, to being distinctly cold and unfriendly.

We've always chatted to them over the fence/in the street/ at other people's social events. We've invited them to bbqs at our house. We've offered them fruit from our garden. We've been nice to their kids - i.e. interacted with them as human beings with ideas, interests and opinions. We've been openly admiring of one parent's sporting achievements and the other's academic achievements. We've asked their opinions about things they're likely to know about. We've looked after their pets every time they've asked (a lot). I've picked up their kids from school and looked after them til the parents got home, every few weeks for a few years; always had activities, baking, talked to the kids etc.

They have always regarded us with a kind of amused tolerance as geeky academic types with no sense - they've always offered a lot of advice on how to live our lives, which we've politely accepted and always made sure we looked extremely grateful (even when we felt they had not a clue about our lives). They've kind of taken the piss a bit with the school pickups, never offering any help in return, or any payment. They also wanted to store their (3rd, very large) car on our driveway "since we weren't using the space" - we have one small car. We like having space to use most of our driveway for other things like playing with DS, so we said "that doesn't work for us, sorry, but do come back if you can't find another solution that works". Nothing else was ever said so we assumed their solution was ok.

We went overseas for 6 months recently, and paid the neighbours gardener rates to mow our lawn. We asked well in advance whether that would be something they'd consider, and said it was totally ok if they'd rather not do it as we totally understood if they would rather not spend the time on it. We explained that we were going to get a gardener to do it but figured that the degree of faff in ensuring a gardener was turning up and doing the job, was going to be a bit silly. They said it was totally fine - we paid them before we left - we came home to a well-mowed lawn. We thanked them and gave them presents from overseas, wine and chocolates and a card.

Since that point the relationship seems to have really gone off though. The wife actively avoids talking to us, and is cold, rude and distant to us if involved in a multi-neighbour conversation. The husband is generally more socially competent, so even if he really disliked us would probably be ok to hold a conversation with us, but every conversation we've had with him has involved him delivering multiple putdowns about us being stupid rich kids, too overeducated and cosseted away from having any idea about the real world to cope with life. The kids are frequently rude (they always have been) but the rudeness is targeted in a way it wasn't before - the parents seem have given the older kid a lot of ammunition of slightly bitchy things to say to us.

As far as we can tell, our sins involve parenting differently from them in that we talk to DS, spend a lot of time with him, include him in conversations or let him do his own thing as he wishes - rather than complaining about him to his face and telling him to eff off and play and then praising his sparky independence and grit behind his back, which his how the neighbours seem to parent their kids. DS also goes to the local (rather old fashioned) prep, where he's doing fine, because he can't really cope with the style of teaching at the local state school ("collaborative" - i.e. really loud and noisy and chaotic). We've explained this to the neighbours as a pragmatic choice based on what's right for DS as a child who doesn't deal well with loud environments or stress. They've been very rude about it and told us we aren't educating him to survive in the real world, we're stuffing his head with useless facts and not letting him have a childhood, - and have told other neighbours that there's clearly something wrong with DS and it's no wonder with parents like us.

Are these neighbours just dicks or are we selfish idiots? Or a bit of both?

OP posts:
TheMammothWithFuzzyLegs · 02/10/2018 08:52

Thanks for all the advice along the lines of "no need to be friendly, they're neighbours".

To clarify a few points: they are administrators at our local university, where DH is an academic and where I used to be an untenured academic until I left to work as an intinerant music teacher. The neighbours have master's degrees and one of them did an MBA recently. I don't think any of us would say that this is specifically about class. As administrators they earn very similar salaries to DH's. So their income is close to double ours.

We went overseas on (DH's) sabbatical. As university administrators they're going to know that this is a normal thing to do and is not simply a matter of us "being able to afford it" when they "can't".

As i said above, the only points where I don't agree with their parenting is that they are notably unkind to their kids and they bitch about other people in front of their kids. Their kids are not polite, kind or empathetic, and are very critical of others.

The private vs. state thing is that DS started at the state school, which that year went down a route of educational experiment that's popular where we are. The classrooms are now very noisy and uncontrolled. DS is hypersensitive to noise, timid, and loves structure. He came home crying nearly every day in Reception, and cried every day before school too. The Reception teacher said he spent much of every day "daydreaming" and would never amount to anything and was unteachable. Older kids bullied him and the school did nothing about it. After an incident where he was surrounded by taunting kids in the playground and ended up wetting himself in fear, which then meant more taunting, we pulled him out and sent him to the private school. Five years later he's doing fine. Our neighbours are likely to know this history given that their kids are at the school where DS started. However they chose to criticize us as though our choice of school is based entirely on snobbery. In return to that we explained that DS couldn't cope with the teaching style at the state school, and that this was specifically because he has never dealt well with noise.

To those saying we were probably too intense in our constant offers of help, we didn't constantly offer help. They constantly asked for help, which in most cases we/I gave, on the grounds that I am a bit less time-pressured than they are. They made it clear that the previous owners of the house had always given them fruit off our trees. So we offered it, since we had more than we could use and I have other things I'd rather do than make jam. They made it clear previous owners had always minded their pets when they went on holiday. So we minded their pets, because the pets are nice, and it would give DS contact with animals that we don't have at home because I'm allergic to them. Childcare similarly - it would give DS contact with neighbours' kids and get the neighbours out of their difficulties, and I wasn't teaching on that afternoon.

Assumptions they have made about us included things like me apparently "not doing sport" and thus being me pointed to C25K events frequently because I apparently needed to get off my fat arse to show DS how to do sport. I swim about 20km a week. So not an elite swimmer by any means, but not sedentary either. DS is in his school swimming squad and plays hockey. They assumed that our parents had paid for our degrees, postgrad degrees, house deposit and house renovations, and told various other neighbours and work colleagues that we were trust fund kids. Our parents didn't pay for any of that and we most certainly aren't trust fund kids. They assume because my primary area is music that I am incapable of anything else, like say, doing a tax return. They don't know that the other half of my undergrad degree was in maths or that I did the accounts for some of DS's clubs for a while. Etc.

The lawn mowing thing was because the NDN husband spends a lot of time doing gardening stuff and is always leaning over the fence telling us what to do with our garden, and offering to lend us his lawnmower because it's more manly or something than our electric one. He's often said he does other people's lawns when they're away. Initially we made interested noises aboout this when we knew we were going on sabbatical. NDN then told us he charges for it. So we said we'd planned to get a gardener but weren't sure how to ensure the gardener turned up, and thus asked if he'd do it. We offered what we knew was the going rate so as to avoid awkwardness about mate's rates. He accepted happily, and his wife was involved in that conversation too, and the money went into an account in both their names, so they both knew what we paid and what we agreed.

I think that about covers it...?

OP posts:
InertPotato · 02/10/2018 09:04

You're overexplaining your decision to send your child privately. You owe no one an explanation.

I'd previously assumed this was a working class vs middle class situation, but your latest post casts a rather different light. I get the sense they think you're guileless bohemians who need a bit of guidance. That's all.

TheMythicalChicken · 02/10/2018 09:09

They sound jealous; you sound sneery. Sorry to say that.

derxa · 02/10/2018 09:11

Thanks OP. Now I don't know what to think Grin

FruitofAutumn · 02/10/2018 09:11

I get the sense they think you're guileless bohemians who need a bit of guidance. That's all.

I doubt they even think anything , doubt they are overanalysing your every move in the way you are theirs.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 02/10/2018 09:15

Ahh look, whoever they are, I wouldn't worry about it. For whatever reason, they've taken agin you, and there isn't much you can do about it.
Maybe they're just like Harry Enfield's "You didn't want to do it like that!" nosey neighbour, and are miffed because you haven't done everything they've told you to.
Maybe they're just wankers.
Either way, the best advice still is to stop trying, and just go to cool and civil when forced to speak to them by circumstance.

Lweji · 02/10/2018 09:18

I'm sorry, but did you actually offer gardener's rates for people who earn twice what you make to mown the lawn while you were away? And who are administrators where your OH works? So, actually classing them at gardener's level and needing the money? Grin

They probably found a gardener to do it.
I can now see their thought process for acting cold on your return.

NonaGrey · 02/10/2018 09:18

And when they pointed you to sporting events you hadn’t asked about I assume you smartly shut them down?

And when they gossiped about your finances to other neighbours I assume you called them on it? Or at least told the other neighbours that they were lying?

If not you are being far too polite to these people.

Disengage. Your relationship needs to be nod, smile and keep walking.

You don’t need to give fruit, look after pets or mind children.

Lweji · 02/10/2018 09:24

So sorry. Clearly should have read the full update. Blush

Maybe they just figured out it wasn't worth maintaining a friendship with you. For all the reasons people are giving not to engage too much with neighbours.

But, if you're really worried, just ask them.

woolduvet · 02/10/2018 09:31

I think you're just over engaging. It doesn't matter what they presume, if you don't speak beyond a 'hi' you won't know.
I'd have moved my child under those circumstances.
Give fruit or bin it, doesn't matter, but just leave it at their door so no chance to be drawn in.
I think you offer them a chance to feel superior to you and you conveniently do jobs for them too. So whatever they ask, back away smiling and say 'sorry we've lots on then/we'll be away then' etc
You owe them nothing beyond a pleasant nod.

SunnyInGrimsby · 02/10/2018 09:33

You've been lovely neighbours; how lucky are these grasping people that you've given them free pet and childcare.

I'm staggered they didn't offer to mow your lawn for nothing after all you've done.

I'd be icily polite and avoid interactions as much as poss! Do no more favours for these CF's.

Juells · 02/10/2018 09:43

InertPotato

This is pretty funny. I agree that the OP needs a stiffer upper lip, but counselling? Only on MN.

I don't see what's funny about it. People who don't have boundaries don't realise that they don't have them, and get walked all over in every part of their lives. It causes huge unhappiness - I know because a friend is like this - she has no boundaries herself (due to alchoholic mother), and doesn't recognise when she's over-stepping other people's.

peridito · 02/10/2018 09:54

The OP posted to get another perspective on the relationship with her neighbours .

Her posts have been analysed by some as sneery /patronising etc . Easy to draw assumptions from the written word ,but not always accurate in diagnosis .

IMO she's had a hard time with her neighbours .She's received some harsh comments on here and also some good advice .

OP hope you can find a MO that works .Flowers + Brew

hiddeneverything · 02/10/2018 09:57

Well in that case, you sound like totally different people and should just stick to exchanging pleasantries xx

ScrambledSmegs · 02/10/2018 10:00

Well yes, from your latest update they seem to be quite unpleasant. So what are you going to do about it?

LaurieMarlow · 02/10/2018 10:05

As i said above, the only points where I don't agree with their parenting is that they are notably unkind to their kids ... their kids are not polite, kind or empathetic, and are very critical of others.

You're pretty much dissing their parenting wholesale. Not being stupid, I'm sure they've picked up on your disapproval. People don't like to have their parenting criticised, surprise surprise.

You clearly have very different values. I still have no idea why you care about their approval. Frosty politeness is all that's required.

ScrambledSmegs · 02/10/2018 10:06

Btw the fruit thing - I know someone who always has a glut of apples and not enough time to deal with them. So her kids pick them (for a fee!) and put them into a big plastic garden tub, which they then put in the front garden with a sign saying Free Apples. Neighbours and passers-by fill bags take what they need. No one's stolen the plastic tub yet either.

Aspenfrost · 02/10/2018 10:14

They are neighbours - as in they live very close to you. You do not have to be so heavily invested. Perhaps if you had offered this level of information early on, you would have got the sorts of responses you are clearly looking for.

What a waste of time.

Sammymommy · 02/10/2018 10:36

That's a one sided story if I ever read one. You come accross as rather smug to be honnest.

But why would you try to talk to people who treat you the way they do?? Just say hello, wave and keep it at that.

PartAnd · 02/10/2018 10:45

I’m not sure about this. It’s hard to tell. One thing for sure is that you are massively overthinking it. 🤔 I also think your comments about them being ‘snobs’ and that they think this and that of you are a bit ridiculous. It’s like you are trying to characterize them to fit your story. It’s a bit daft really. TBH you sound like you might be a bit intense but hard to tell from a few posts.

Why can’t you just leave it that they don’t want to be overly friendly with you and you don’t with them. Smile, be polite and neighbourly and stop with the pidgeon holing and analyzing

I’d HATE it if I thought my nieghbours were questioning what I do and why I do it.

TatianaLarina · 02/10/2018 10:52

I still think it’s about class, just not about income (not the same thing at all).

They’re making assumptions about you based on what they perceive to be your social background - that you’re sending DS to private school out of ‘snobbery’ rather than educational need, that you have inherited wealth that paid for education, house deposit, trust funds etc. Even if that’s not your background that seems to be how they perceive you or choose to perceive you, or at least choose to portray you.

Aspenfrost · 02/10/2018 11:22

TatianaLarina

I still think it’s about class, just not about income (not the same thing at all).

We know. You are preaching to the converted and it is becoming tiresome.

Ignoramusgiganticus · 02/10/2018 11:29

You sound reasonable in everything you've done. Maybe it is just a clash/different personalities and you aren't needed as much?

karyatide · 02/10/2018 11:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lalager · 02/10/2018 12:01

It sounds to me as if they are reading your good nature generosity with childcare, petsitting, garden fruit etc as weakness and unworldliness, and while they are benefiting from it, they are also sneery about it. (I'm an academic too, and I've occasionally had a not dissimilar 'Fine for some, sitting around at a desk woolgathering and only teaching eight hours a week!' attitude, though never stated so explicitly, especially when my husband was working in a locally prestigious job...)

Nothing you can do other than withdraw and maintain a civil distance, and correct them on their misapprehensions if they're directly stated.