To think that if Girl Guides is for girls, it should allow all girls to be members?

[OrchidInTheSun]

Girl guides have confirmed that if a girl identifies as a boy, they'll kick them out.

So they are no longer a single sex organisation, they are a single gender one.

Mad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

Yabu

You’re being pedantic with words. We know what they mean by sex. They’ll just have to say they’re a single gender organisation instead.

I can’t get why people are hounding the guides at the moment. Why not focus on the reasons why all of a sudden there’s a large increase in young people wanting to change gender.

Perfectly logical. Trans boys are boys, so they should not be in a girls only organisation.

You got that the wrong way round, Orchid. They are a single sex organisation and gender (whatever that actually is) is irrelevant.

As it should be.

Nothing to shout about.

Ah no. Read it now. I thought they were being sensible about banning transgender girls - It's clearly the other way round.

Blimey. What a mess.

Yep. I'm pissed off with this too.

It should be ONLY about sex, not 'gender'

Sorry for being dim. Too early in the morning!

yep, "mumsnet meanies" accused of excluding trans children... when it is guides that are excluding trans children, those who are female and want to be boys, just when they need them most. There are more female to male children than male to female.

Of course they have to ban transboys. Otherwise it makes a complete mockery of the "Guiding is for all girls" policy.

Believe, that is not what's happening at all. If a boy thinks he is a girl, he is welcomed with open arms; if a girl thinks she is a boy, she is phased out of the organisation.

I think Girl Guides actually needs to make all its groups mixed anyway - we have girls in Beavers and Cubs but no boys in Rainbows or Brownies where I live.

Then the boy can join the scouts? Easy.

Well, with this policy change, they have made themselves a mixed sex organisation. They are being disingenuous to say otherwise.

so is the scouts policy the same?

Then the boy can join the scouts? Easy.

Yes, let's remove an entire friendship group and support system from a confused, vulnerable girl. Easy!

Guides made a conscious decision not to become meixed sex what Scouts did. They felt that they were providing a valuable girls only space in particular for girls who for religious or other reasons could not join a mixed organisation. That is why this is such a significant issue. Those girls are now denied access to any Scout or Guide group.

The scouts policies have been impact assessed with safeguarding frameworks built into trips, adult carers, etc etc.

Here's what's happening with GG. If a leader needs to bring her 5 year old son on a trip, there are rules in place for where he sleeps, changes, washes, etc. If that same 5 year old boy says he is a girl, no separation of facilities is required.

"Then the boy can join the scouts? Easy.

Yes, let's remove an entire friendship group and support system from a confused, vulnerable girl. Easy!"

No it's not easy. It's shit. But that is what is happening to other vulnerable groups of girls. It's a completely unreconcilable conflict of rights.

I agree that there is a conflict, but GG have been a single sex organisation for years, invoking the exemptions in the EA that allowed for them to discriminate based on sex. It is a mystery why they have swept that away.

I agree. But now they have bought into the "transgirls are girls" thing they have to also stick to "transboys are boys" surely?

It would unfortunately seem so.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I also think GG needs to drop the first G and permit all children. Trips to be split by natal sex - hormones and all that. Even if we put aside the feelings of the natal girls, trans girl can get girls pregnant.

I for one think it makes perfect logical sense to limit membership of a group to a personality or identity type. Absolutely. Genitals are neither here nor there- surely identity/personality trumps that? I can't understand why people think otherwise. I also think that sports categories should be determined by identity.

It was fairly simple to me...if a transpersonal the expects the outside world to respect their new choice of gender then that means they accept its restrictions as well.

Surely a transboy would want to use male changing rooms to assert their perceived gender?

This just demonstrates in a nutshell precisely how the trans movement is shooting itself and the whole concept of non binary in the foot by being so dogmatic by insisting that feels/style=gender/sex. It is perpetuating stereotypes. If this person just wanted to dress in stereotypical boys clothes and be called Alex then all would probably be well. Insist that that makes you a boy then you are going to be treated like a boy,as per your request.

How do you decide whether someone is a girl or a boy? It seems quite confusing. What if they change their mind?

I mean if you've had a girl go through Rainbows, Brownies, into Guides, say she's now a boy, she's going to be expelled?

Oops I meant to add. The argument for single sex no longer applies due to GG making a mockery of their own reasons for not opening up to boys. No parent, who wants their girl to go to be involved with a single sex group is going to allow their girl to go to one with a girl with a penis.

TurfClub it's simple. As soon as HE expresses HIS male gender identity, it should be clear to everyone that HE was a boy all along, despite having been violently assigned the male gender at birth by ignorant medical professionals.

Sorry, female gender