To think that if Girl Guides is for girls, it should allow all girls to be members?

[OrchidInTheSun]

Girl guides have confirmed that if a girl identifies as a boy, they'll kick them out.

So they are no longer a single sex organisation, they are a single gender one.

Mad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

mummyoflittledragons why should girls lose a single sex space that allows girls (I.e female children) to experience camping/guiding who otherwise wouldn’t be able to BECAUSE it’s female only space.

Remember the scouts became mixed because of dropping numbers. Guiding has never had that.

They need to admit they are no longer single sex.

I think you mean violently assigned the female gender by those murderous evil midwives. It's a bit like the sorting hat I think. You're a Hufflepuff or a Slytherin.

I also think that sports categories should be determined by identity.
Yes, good idea . What a silly rule that girls, who play contact rugby and other rough sports can’t play with boys beyond the age of 11/12 for their own physical protection.

I think that was sarcasm Mummy

Guides is damned because those who live as boys are drummed out.

A girls school which lets pupils continue regardless also damned.

That is because some people are actually quite intolerant of people both making different decisions about how they arrange things and also attaching different weight to the issues.

There's an ever growing list of organisations which have been the subject of critical thread/s in FWR. Personally, I think it's totally counterproductive as it has started to make them look as the ones who are always contrary (and by implication wrong and never satisfied). Other posters will have a different view, both on single issues and cumulative effect.

Surely a child that wants to change gender has bigger problems than whether or not they can go to guides

Public Service Annouincement

I for one think it makes perfect logical sense to limit membership of a group to a personality or identity type. Absolutely. Genitals are neither here nor there- surely identity/personality trumps that? I can't understand why people think otherwise. I also think that sports categories should be determined by identity.

Cos we all recognise the intent behind this post, don't we

Yes, sorry, TurfClub. That is what I meant. Literal violence is being perpetrated on children by assigning them the wrong gender. This needs to be addressed asap.

Stormyumbrella
I absolutely don’t think it should. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I think the whole thing is a farce and should only allow children with a vagina in.

I'm completely confused.

...and do think the world has gone mad

mummy, if it was unclear, I was being sarcastic (to be fair, it's hard to tell these days- some people really have idiotic views).

If you swallow the mantra that trans girls are girls because they say they are girls, we are talking at cross purposes. I don't know what you mean by 'girl' and presumably you don't either, beyond it being 'anyone who says they are a girl'. Trans girls may indeed be girls according to your definition. I am talking about a child of the female biological sex and under that definition, children born male are not a part of it.

My position is the same for adults. Trans women may indeed be women, if your definition of woman is a loose concept of anyone who identifies as it. My definition is adult humans of the female biological sex. No more, no less.

With GG, the main issue is not membership per se, but the absolutely idiotic and blatant lack of safeguarding on overnight trips and the refusal to allow parents to give informed consent as to whether they want their daughters to share sleeping space and showers with a biological male.

Surely a trans boy(bio Female), would prefer a more masculine organisation like the Scouts anyway.

Trans boys are boys. Trans girls are girls. Boys go to scouts. Girls go to guides. Issues come when you refuse to acknowledge automomy and insist that people conform to your own own sense of gender. I think the guides are right grab boys are boys and trans girls are girls. I suspect in practice and girl in guides who choses to transition would remain welcomed by the individual troop if it is the supportive environment visited above.

Surely a trans boy(bio Female), would prefer a more masculine organisation like the Scouts anyway.

Is that not perpetrating gender-stereotypes? Being female does not equate to being feminine. I am a woman because I have XX chromosomes, female sex characteristics etc. That is as far as it should go. Don't people see how pushing the 'girls are girlie and like pink' mantra (and saying that boys can also be girls if they are girlie and like pink) is harmful? Why the fuck do you think that so many young girls are confused about their gender identity? Do you think they were all 'born in the wrong body'? No, ffs, it's because they are rejecting the ludicrous social norms that dictate that females have to conform to some stupid notion of femininity and that if they don't, they were born in the wrong body and are really a boy.

Swissgemma define what a boy is and what a girl is, please.

I'm a boy!
No your a ten year old girl who hates pink - you're a Tomboy.

I'm a girl!
No your a ten year old boy who likes babies.

Why are some so keen to presexualise children?

If guides are mixed sex either by design or by stealth then that's suddenly a large number of girls from certain cultures, religions and backgrounds that will not be able to attend and also have no alternative group to go to.

That is a massive problem for an organisation that talk about inclusivity but are in reality prioritising the feelings of boys over the lived reality for many girls. This is all coming from an org that is specifically meant to centre girls in what they do. It's their USP or at least it was.

Just saying, I was one of those 'Tomboys', biological Female but did not fit into the gender stereotypes. I worse boys clothes, and had my hair short and spiky. I was still happy being a girl. I used to go to Brownies, but swapped it for Air Cadets, much better. I could learn about the engineering of planes, and fly them, as opposed to do craft and knitting, which was what was happening in Guides. No thanks. That's my view.

I very much doubt that back in the real world of actual guiding, you know, local unit run by three or four women who’ve been doing it for years, turning up week after week, unlocking the village hall doors, opening up the Guides cupboard to get out the balls and pens and boxes that are falling apart as they’ve been used for so long, nagging parents politely to pay subs please , running an evening of something a bit random like making revolting fat balls to feed the birds, guiders then spending twenty minutes at the end cleaning lard off the Parish Hall tables because if you don’t you'll get a sniffy email from the woman in charge of hall bookings, the actual nuts and bolts of guiding, any kicking or drumming out will occur?

Who do you think we are? No way I'd ever in a million years manage a girl out of my unit. Fucks sake, it’s a big enough bloody pain in the arse collecting the sodding consent forms so I can take everyone out for a walk along the canal, you think we're that mean or that bothered tbh to go through all that heartache of getting rid of a unit member just because of some rather vague and idiotic policy?

To those saying 'Why can't they just join the Scouts', I know the Scouts are a mixed sex organisation now, but I'm willing to bet it's still largely boys in many areas of the country. How will these vulnerable girls get on among the boys? I'm guessing the wokeness that permeates some parts of our society may not have filtered through in all areas and this could be a rough ride for those girls. Mixed sex spaces are a problem for safeguarding of females, not males (you don't get women clamouring to get into men's prisons).

I also suspect some boys would feel uncomfortable with a girl in their tent, so it's not fair to them either.

But I suspect these girls just won't be able to join in any more. It's also weird for Guides to encourage them to transition, then boot them out.

Yup Ova. It exposes the misogyny of trans ideology. It only centres the males who claim they are female. It gives not two shits about the females who are now forced to share with said male.

HOW can we teach girls that they are entitled to privacy from boys on one hand but then say it's fine to shower with boys if those boys say they are girls.

I think people like Susie Green are so far down the path that they are incapable of turning back. Plus Susie is of course personally invested in it. But what she says makes zero sense. If we accept what she is saying, we must get rid of sex-segregation full stop and claim that male bodied persons will never be a risk to female bodied ones. Because the 'they are a risk but only if they 'feel' male i their brains' line is utter hogwash.

Plus, what about privacy and dignity? I have male friends and colleagues. They won't attack or rape me, I am pretty sure of that. I still don't want to get changed or shower with them and would feel uncomfortable doing so.

Well then Scribbly you should be kicked out as a Guide Leader because you are not following Girl Guide policy or aligning with their values, just like Helen Watts has been.

YABU. My DD will be going to an all girls grammar school and I hope to god that there’s none of this crap otherwise I’m asking for a refund. She needs a safe learning space. Definitely won’t be following in my footsteps with Brownies or Guides. Really not far on all the girls, especially the younger ones that don’t really understand. If they are so open with their gender identity then it shouldn’t be a problem to remain in the male sector of these groups, especially if they still have the same genitalia. Explain m to f to the boys and bobs your uncle.