When did we become ok with the burka?

[Banana8080]

In my childhood (80s90s) I remember being sad some Muslim women were pressured not to show their full faces in public ie become invisible. These days much more focus on a women right to choose aka wear the full vail, even those who are possible under pressure.

When/why did this change happen?

I have no issue with the hijab and abaya; am not keen on the niqab, but I think a burka is an oppressive garment, and yes, I have one. Db brought me one in a fetching shade of blue from Kabul when he had to go for Afghanistan for work. As well as disliking the feeling of being covered from the crown of my head, I couldn't see a damn thing out of the little mesh grid where your eyes are, and I can see how it would be stifling in warm weather.

I can see why a hijab is chosen, just as orthodox Jewish women would wear a wig or a scarf to cover their hair, or a Nun wears a veil or a wimple, but surely wearing a burka is drawing attention to yourself as it is not the norm here.

Who is "we"?

Why is there this assumption that everything a muslim women does she is forced into it. As if she has no personal strength of her own, as though she is a meek little submissive creature that has no voice unless the great white man/woman gives it to her. Muslim women have always worn a veil by choice. How nice of you to decide that since they have obviously no mind of their own, or are too meek of mind to know themselves that you will aid them to do exactly that which you are comfortable with.
Slow claps

Good point actually I've never seen a burkha in the UK. Lots of niqabs though.

I don’t support it and I would support a ban.

It sets the standard of a “good Muslim woman” and inadvertently puts pressure on other women to be as good as the burka wearers.

It is cultural NOT religious and I don’t think the right to wear whatever you like trumps other cultural norms.

The burka was originally worn by men and women in dessert based countries to avoid sand in the eyes. Unfortunately hijacked by the extreme. The niqab was worn by women of noteriety in society. Many of the prophets wives wore the niqab.

Islam introduced the hijab to stop men behaving so badly towards women. I appreciate that it too has been misused in places.

Where will it end?
Should the wearing of long coats and hats be banned too?
All religious symbols? All items associated with religious groups?
Ridiculous

It sets the standard of a “good Muslim woman” and inadvertently puts pressure on other women to be as good as the burka wearers.

It doesn't. And you could say the aame about hijab, so should we ban that too? The Muslim woman who posted an AMA thread posted very eloquently about how it's a choice for herself and that she doesn't give a fig about what other Muslim or non-Muslim women wear.

We should link the thread here, get some good out of this thread.

Sets the standard of a good Muslim woman to who? That's ridiculous. I'm British and I choose to wear it. Just like in the past I chose to wear mini skirts, Dr Martens, fishnet stockings, glitter eyeliner and whatever else I wanted to. That won't change for me because some people don't like my choice of attire now.

This is not about a 'burka ban', it is about the prevention of women choosing which way of life they wish to follow.

I have said many times if I had children I would take them out of school rather then allow them to be taught by a woman that covers her face/head. Women died in this country for equality, I think wearing it is disrespectful.

I'm OK with it because - shock horror - it's not my body so it's not my choice.

Burqua is not the veil - niqab is the veil, very few women in Britain wear the burqua.

You would rather take your children out of school than be taught by someone who covers her head? Does that include wigs then? Bandanas? Fashion scarves? Or are we only discriminating against Muslim women today?

I don’t have a problem with the Burkha per se.

I have a problem with anybody covering their entire face in public.

Whether that be a Burkha, Balaclava, not taking a Motorcycle helmet off when not riding etc.

I don’t even like people dressed up in character costumes not knowing who’s underneath.

I find the values it stands for abhorrent, its offensive and should be banned. Women should not have their faces covered up lest they lead men on. It has absolutely no place in a civilised society.

These days much more focus on a women right to choose

Surely this is what's important?

I would think the more pressing concern here is 'when did we become so entitled that we thought our opinion on what strangers wear actually mattered or that we had a right to try and dictate to others based on our own preferences'?

*MamaNai# when a religion said that women and not men should cover their heads with those things then I will feel the same way.

Long coats and hats don’t prevent face to face contact though do they? Facial cues are extremely important.

Like it or not we all regulate what we want to do with what society says we can do. And walking around completely covered up except for your eyes does have an effect on the people around you and the people you interact with.

The last poster who did the AMA said it helped her feel closer to her god, that it pleased him. Where does it say that in the Quran (apologies if spelt incorrectly)? Is that not an idea she has taken on from somewhere? That being covered pleases her god?

The only thing I don’t like about it is the description of it as ‘modest’ dress. It sets up other, skin revealing, forms of dress as immodest and I don’t like that.

I don’t care about what women wear or don’t wear. What I don’t like is the way it’s talked about. I do not wear clothes that show shoulders / forearms / legs because I am choosing to be immodest, and I dislike the implication.

I don't see the gold bird-like mask wearing old women any more (Saudi I think). I used to see these in London in the 1990s but rarely any women covering their face not women with a British accent covering up. Never children - I saw a girl of about 9 or 10 in a long black gown and long headscarf like a black brides veil down to her calves today, and not the first time (in London)'

I have family from/in the ME and where they are from the obsession with hiding women landed on women in the mid 70s and if course is now law (although they don't cover their faces like Arab women). Not even my religious relatives cover their hair when outside their country (unless going to a mosque) as the whole point of it is - as very religious and sensible grandma used to say - NOT to stand out.

I’m all for women choosing what to wear. I wish they would choose to discard the niqab and burka.

I attended a training course a couple of years ago that was delivered by a woman wearing a Niqab. I can honestly say, it didn't make a difference at all. She was personable, funny and her delivery was clear. The presence of a face covering didn't change any of those things and there was none of this concern from anyone else on the course about not being able to understand or relate to her