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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

999 replies

crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 08:05

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

OP posts:
POAlockdown · 16/09/2018 08:08

You don't need to worry about men. They'll be fine. Especially if you're just worrying that they're not welcome on women only bike rides.

RtHonLady · 16/09/2018 08:08

I don't know where to start...

theboud · 16/09/2018 08:11

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that

Wanting equality with men doesn’t make me a man hater.

Sorry you’re having problems with your cycling club. If you have questions about feminism there are some excellent boards on here where you can read previous threads and learn a lot.

Hideandgo · 16/09/2018 08:11

I think there is a difference between equality vs the right to segregated and protected spaces. I, like you, want equality. I don’t want the segregated spaces as I think they highlight that we are vulnerable which is a self fulfilling prophesy. I want to see harsher sentences and greater policing of the men who would take advantage, not the segregation of us.

treaclesoda · 16/09/2018 08:11

The men will be fine, you don't need to worry about them. Believe me, there's comparatively few of them who are worried about us.

Chocolate1984 · 16/09/2018 08:14

Can the men not organise their own male only group? Have they banned them from starting their own single sex rides?

EmpressOfSpartacus · 16/09/2018 08:16

I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I don't think there's anything to celebrate about "gender". It's not good for anyone, especially women.

Are you saying that you think we shouldn't have separate female & male categories in sport?

Cwenthryth · 16/09/2018 08:18

What do you think equality is, OP? What does ‘women getting equality’ mean to you?

WRT women-only spaces, they’re not just about you, as an individual. They are about other women too, who do want and need to access them. They’re definitely not about your son. Equality isn’t a pie, it’s not a zero sum game. Women-only bike rides don’t mean you can’t also have family bike rides or men-only bike rides (which many cycling clubs are by default anyway, IME).

Ozgirl75 · 16/09/2018 08:18

Interestingly I remember studying the concept of women only shortlists and positive discrimination etc and our tutor saying that it’s just a leg up and they won’t be needed after a short period of time as women will show how good they are and the lists and positive discrimination will no longer be necessary.

I remember us women at the time all saying we wouldn’t want to be successful because of being given a leg up.

Well that was well over 20 years ago so I don’t think things have progressed as quickly as we hoped back in the 90s. The reasons why are obviously varied and numerous.

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 08:18

chocolate. Yes they have that is what is wrong with all this I think some groups and organisations are getting it wrong and like a pp said they are highlighting a vulnerability not giving us the protection when we stand up for ourselves.

OP posts:
treaclesoda · 16/09/2018 08:20

I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

You might not, but lots of women do. Because they find men intimidating. If having women only cycling events frees those women up to participate and the only side effect is that a few men feel irritated at not being allowed to show off participate, then surely that's a good thing?

OddBoots · 16/09/2018 08:20

Who says the men can't have their own ride? As long as they don't expect the women to do the organising for them then it would be very unusual for a club to say no.

moreThanFantastic · 16/09/2018 08:21

I know what you mean OP.

I don't like diversity quotas or single-sex awards when there's a mixed and a women's.

Equality isn't all it's cracked up to be. You rarely see women complaining that there are too few female miners or soldiers or bridge painters. It seems that they only want to see 50:50 in STEM (god knows why) or the board room.

"I know MN has a good proportion of man haters "

Yes. A fuck load. Luckily they tend to be confined to their keyboards.

LusaCole · 16/09/2018 08:21

In a sport like cycling, in all but a tiny minority of cases, men will be faster than women. So I guess the men don't really need a 'male only' event because if it's a mixed event, the fastest men will win. So to give fast women a chance of winning, you need to have a 'women only' event.

Shallishanti123 · 16/09/2018 08:22

Sounds like something that Katie Hopkins would say

LusaCole · 16/09/2018 08:24

It seems that they only want to see 50:50 in STEM - I work in STEM and my colleagues are 80-90% male. So we are very very far off a 50% target at the moment!

As for "god knows why", it's because STEM and board room jobs are associated with higher salaries whereas typical "female" jobs (nurses etc) are low paid. Hence this is a barrier to equality.

HTH

JacquesHammer · 16/09/2018 08:24

I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one

“Not allowed”? Or rather there hasn’t been a chap who has been bothered to organise one? Why not organise an all-male bike ride, OP?

You don’t need to give head space to worrying about excluding men.

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 08:25

empress. No I am not saying we don’t need separate events in sport , I am saying I don’t want to be involved in something for just women that men are stopped from doing. (The bike club I am talking about is a motorcycle club not a bicycle club) in this club I can organise a women only ride out but my DH was told NO to a men’s only ride this is why I think organisations and businesses are getting it wrong sometimes.

OP posts:
RowenaDedalus · 16/09/2018 08:26

What day do we have that men don’t have?

BrightLightsAndSound · 16/09/2018 08:26

The other day by sheer coincidence it was just me and 2 other women at the gym (normally overrun with gaggles of muscle men).
All 3 of us commented how nice it was for a change to be able to lift weights and work out without feeling "watched", or without feeling like we had to slink around and hurry up because of the unspoken pressure of moving out the way for the men. Theres also the eyeing up, the uninvited mansplaining and "advice" (which they never give to other men, even newbie men), and in some cases the low level passive aggressive feel of us taking up space pointlessly that could be used by "real" men with a "real" workout.
I personally would welcome a womens only weights gym. I dont need any classes or sisterhood bonding sessions. Just the opportunity to work out and lift weights without feeling ogled or patronised.

TheHulksPurplePanties · 16/09/2018 08:26

YABU to say that women's rights are bad for women. Of course they aren't.

YANBU however to say that segregation and this return to calls for women only spaces are bad for women. It took women forever to be allowed into the boys clubs and to not be treated like special snowflakes in need of protection and private spaces (hell we are still fighting for these things). Segregation, especially segregation under the guise of "protection", is never good.

NiamhNaomh · 16/09/2018 08:26

My DH and his running mates (from his running club) go for runs alone every week and do not specifically invite the female members of their running club. The women also do this. They all want to run with people going at their own pace. For the life of me I cannot understand why this could not happen in a cycling club. You are exuding ingrained “whatsboutery” to me.

Newsofas · 16/09/2018 08:27

Let the men organise their own group. You don’t need to do it for them.

I run. I want to compete against women not men. That is my right and not yours to dictate.

I want equal. Equal access. The right to vote. The right to run in a marathon (1983 for women). Etc etc

Thanks op for your concern about men. I have two teenage boys. They certainly don’t need help in talking over me, spouting facts, confidence, running faster than me etc etc

CarolDanvers · 16/09/2018 08:27

"well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men".

May I ask what exactly it is that you're worried about?

treaclesoda · 16/09/2018 08:28

When I go out in the car on a Sunday morning it looks to me as if every cycling group in my area runs male only events. Wink I never see a woman in a group of cyclists. I sometimes see couples out together, or women on their own, but not women in amongst a group of men.