To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

@5bobaweek you’ve put it far more articulately than I managed.

I completely agree with everything you’ve said.

When people realise that discussing is one thing, but silencing is quite another, only then can a sensible discussion be had.

Until then, it’s abundantly clear that feminism and vocal campaigners for women’s rights are needed, ironically that is shown by the people who are so utterly determined to pursue their own personal agenda (as is very evident on this post) in order to silence an entire movement of women.

Arthur I haven’t said you’re a man, not once.

However, having gone back after some time away and read all your posts together your agenda is clear to me.

Also, whataboutery is not only a real word, it’s a tool used by people disinterested in or threatened by something to shut it down by shouting “what about......” something completely separate and it’s what you’ve been doing on the whole thread.

You’ve also chosen to hone in on one or two comments, rather than the screeds of comments written to try and engage and explain.

Which tells me you just wanted an argument in the first place. Silly me for trying.

For what it's worth, I believe you're a woman. It's just that you've acted like a man on this thread. Including dismissing discussing female victims of male abuse as 'an agenda'.

No I have acted like a woman who has these opinions.

I could say that some of you have acted like men - bullying, aggressive, dismissing of a woman's views.

Oh wait. That's it - you are all men!!!

Clearly you are because you are displaying the traits that you claim men have SO YOU MUST BE MEN.

Also yes, I believe you’re a woman. I was confused at first because of your username, but the first time you said you are a woman I took you at your word. Which is incidentally far more respect than you’ve shown me.

You talk about bullies, when all you’ve done is belittle, sneer at, demean and malign any woman who disagrees with you. While playing the victim yourself.

You’ve had a tough time on this thread because you have repeatedly brushed aside violence against women and children. Not openly said it doesn’t matter, but refused to engage and believe it’s even real. Which is as bad .

Women sometimes need spaces and activities away from men, if you can’t understand why then you are very fortunate indeed.

I have a DH and a DS, they are both wonderful, my DH is the kindest man I have ever known (one of the reasons he is my DH!) and my DS has autism and is the kindest child I have ever known, he is very gentle and sensitive, but I appreciate why there may be times when they have to stay out of women only environments and activities, they are no threat to any woman, but they respect that there is still a need for sex segregated spaces and activities.

And even if they weren’t needed the fact that they are wanted is enough.

@YeTalkShiteHen

You joined in with those calling me a man though and at one point you agreed that they could be right.

I have repeatedly acknowledged the issues that we as women face.

I haven't denied them once. What Ive tried to do is reflect that men and boys also face issues.

What Ive said has been repeatedly twisted and misquoted. Only once has someone admitted that apologised. The rest of the time you've all ignored me pointing out the mistake and have just carried on. So I could say that you too just wanted an argument.

You joined in with those calling me a man though and at one point you agreed that they could be right.

I never once called you a man, you have a spectacular knack of twisting the truth to suit yourself.

Do I think your posting style and the way you come across appears masculine? Yes.

Do I believe you’re a woman? Yes

Did I ever call you a man? Did I fuck and you know it too.

You lied about the other thread, and misrepresented it. You’re lying about this thread and also misrepresenting it. I’m sure you believe what you’re saying, which is the scariest part.

You are not the victim.

@UnderHerEye

I agree totally with what you have said.

I have said that I see the need for sex segregated groups.

But when I said the same as you have about the men in my family I was attacked for it.

Apparently I'm not allowed to have a balanced view of the world. You can't recognise that women and men both face difficulties and challenges because if you do you have to be a man.

Apparently I'm not allowed to have a balanced view of the world. You can't recognise that women and men both face difficulties and challenges because if you do you have to be a man

Horseshit. Absolute unmitigated horseshit.

Your ability to twist things is absolutely terrifying. You remind me very much of someone recently in the media, who managed to twist things spectacularly and cause an awful lot of trouble.

I dont think anyone has said men do not face difficulties in life. What has been said is that is those difficulties are not the fault of womens rights which is what this thread was about.

Where do I say I know someone accused of rape? Where do I say that?

Oh come on @Arthuritis are you serious? The conversation at the time was about false accusations of rape - why would you then hold up a false accusation of something else? That's pretty dishonest, either you're trying to inflame or you forgot you lied and are now trying to cover your tracks on a technicality

And really if you'd trained to be a doctor, or a teacher or a nurse and someone made up something entirely untrue about you you'd think " cool. I'll be a labourer?"
If that was your son or your husband?

We've been over this a couple of times but I'll summarise.

Charging someone with rape requires a very high threshold for evidence and even with strong evidence the CPS don't always charge, as they only take cases to court they believe will have a decent chance of conviction. Th fore if you're charged with rape I am absolutely confident there's a very strong likelihood you're a rapist. Even if the charges are dropped (there could be many reasons why) or if the verdict is not guilty, it's important that this info is put on a DBS to protect vulnerable people, because there's no indication at all of innocence.

If a woman trots into a police station and says Joe Bloggs raped me last night, but Joe proven to be elsewhere, or she's clearly lying, and it never goes beyond an investigation, it's extremely unlikely this will show up on a DBS due to the framework I posted about earlier.

So there's a fairly certain chance that if info is on a DBS it's there not as a box ticking exercise but because it's protecting someone vulnerable.

Oh and if my DH is DS we're charged with rape I'd be disgusted in them. Why would I think they were innocent just because they're related to me?

And silence again when you realise that I didn't say what you said I did

It was 11.30pm i went to bed

Get over yourself arthurits I went to sleep - this is hardly the highlight of my weekend.

Pray tell what your friend who has his life ruined by a false allegation on his dbs by a woman who had no come back supposedly did then if it was not rape? If new posters to this 900 post thread think I’m being terribly mean then be advised this post was in the context of women being raped, so if it was a false allegation of I don’t know, being a horrible man because he didn’t make a cup of tea, then it was inappropriate to be brought up in the first place.

Hi

Just wanted to point out that I’m a different poster to GunpowderGelatine. If anyone wants to tag them it’s probably best to use their full user name.

Thanks!

@CosmicCanary

I think you're right that they aren't the fault of women's rights.

But I think that some of the problems faced by men and boys are the fault of both men and women.

Women (as well as men) have views on how men and boys should act, perpetuate stereotypes for men, and so they do have some responsibility for how their sons, who become men turn out.

Apologies if caused confusion by not compare like for like. The two issues most commonly discussed seem to be the two women murdered weekly and the 84 male suicide (although the latter is hardly touched upon in comparison tbh, possibly because us men don't talk about this type of stuff as much).

84 men a week is terrible. But it has got absolutely no bearing on the figure of 2 women a week.

I can't see many instances where the man would stay in bed and the woman would be expected to confront the would be knife wielding burglar.
Mate, do you know how many single mothers there are?! I used to live on a bad estate where there were burglaries all the time and I slept with a hammer under my bed with the aim of going down swinging if I heard a break in.
Women are often in situations where they are potentially facing up to a man unarmed-in the woods with a 3 year old and a trycycle when a weirdo approaches for example.

Only thing is I'm a LOT smaller than you!
I worry like Hell about male violence towards my teenage son too, and don't think it's not important because it's perpetuated by males. But men do have the power to at least try and address male violence. I'm not sure they are.
And I do think white people as a class are collectively responsible for addressing racism, yes.

If new posters to this 900 post thread think I’m being terribly mean then be advised this post was in the context of women being raped,

Except it wasn't at all.

It was in the context of unfair or false allegations not being insignificant for men.

That a false allegation could show on an enhanced DBS check.

I never mentioned rape and it wasn't in that context but repeated posters have lied and said "I have a friend falsely accused of rape" and then that has become fact on here.

I didn't say that at all.

Apparently I'm not allowed to have a balanced view of the world. You can't recognise that women and men both face difficulties and challenges because if you do you have to be a man

Everyone knows men and women both face difficulties and challenges. No one said otherwise.

What has been said is women as a class face more and that that is usually because of men. And when men as a class face difficulties and challenges it usually isn't because of women.

And as women, we should be able to discuss the unique challenges we face without constantly having to put men first or be expected to solve mens problems for them. We've got enough of our own.

I've been thinking about women who falsely 'cry rape', and I wonder if it's because rape is the only illegal thing men do to women that is actually taken seriously.
Only recently has coercion been made illegal. But, for the most part, men can treat women like absolute shit, and it will be written off as 'that's just what men do'. Untill it's rape. Then people listen.

I wonder if the false accusations of rape are what women do in the absence of being able to physically stop men's bullying and abuse (by which I think I mean, a good old fashioned beating up)

Ugh, it's all so depressing.

There's nothing more annoying is there when a man comes on to threads and tells us that it's easy leash being a woman. Fuck. Off.

BTW men are not nor likely to be attacked by a stranger - they experience more violence because they get into fight with each other. Not comparable to rape where one person has full power over a weaker person

I can't see many instances where the man would stay in bed and the woman would be expected to confront the would be knife wielding burglar.

This is just embarrassing if it's the best you've got.

I don’t think you’re a man @arthuritis and haven’t questioned your sex. Which is incidentally more than the courtesy you have extended me.

I do think you’re a woman who, as I said upthread, has no respect for the issues your own sex face and puts them at the bottom of the pile. I’ve asked you why that is and you haven’t explained. You will no doubt say the same now but from your words it’s clear you do. The rampant sexism and abuse women face AS A CLASS and of which numerous examples have been produced are less important to you than imaginary males of your acquaintance being falsely charged with rape and men who are already dominant in a club seeming a “men only” event. It’s pathetic and I would rather you were a man tbh, at least then your ignorance might be caused by your male privilege but it’s harder to see what’s caused it here.

Women (as well as men) have views on how men and boys should act, perpetuate stereotypes for men, and so they do have some responsibility for how their sons, who become men turn out.

Parents are responsible for raising their children. I impart my wisdom on all of my DC however I am able to give more to my DDs due to life experience as a female as we share that. It is the same for my sons father he gives a male perspective.

In society men are the aggressors thats just fact and evidence my crime stats one. Women can challenge toxic masculinity but they require the support of men for that challenge to be effective.

I'm a well built black man who enjoys working out. I'll let you guess how that effects the way react/stereotype to me.

So how many times has someone twice your build or weight made a leery sexual comment about your appearance and made you feel unsafe by doing so? Because it happens to women every day.

I just don't subscribe to the view that men are the problem.

People are the problem.

And people are the solution.

Surely blaming just one group only alienates and causes more division.

How does that make anything better?