Mixed sex scouts camping

[brotherhoodofspam]

DD going to America for 3 weeks with scouts for World Jamboree next Summer and we've recently completed the UK unit registration form which asks which gender she identfies as, for purposes of allocating sleeping arrangements. I have a lot of sympathy for people with genuine gender dysphoria but AIBU to be quite concerned that 16-18 yr old boys could potentially simply state that they feel female and end up sharing a tent with DD who will be 16 at the time? I suspect the scout movement feel their hands are tied and this is the only non discriminatory way to deal with this but it just doesn't feel properly thought through in terms of protecting teenage girls away from home for nearly a month I'm pretty sure nobody in Dad's unit identfies other than their biological sex so I don't think it will arise as an issue for her personally but I do feel pretty uncomfortable with the principle and think with a camp of 10000 scouts it might be an issue for some. Did any other parents of jamboree-going scouts have concerns about this? Our AIBU and very un-PC.

Come on! You'd have to be really stupid (I'm not suggesting you are) to think the OP wasn't planning on this thread going in this direction.

This in spades

At 16, she is able to consent, whether that be with transgender or cisgender scouts. We can't wrap them in cotton wool forever I'm afraid.

Sorry, I had assumed you had a passing interest in feminism (even if you don't support its aims) or women's history to be commenting with such certainty abput sex segregation being an unneccessary relic. Like I said, you obviously have your opinions and would be totally fine if sex segregation was done away with entirely. Most women and girls are not happy with it. In your opinion I'm being discriminatory; as humans we make judgements all the time and I judge the average man to pose a vastly higher threat to me than the average woman due to life experiences and statistics.

The reason there are more injuries and assaults in male prisons is because of the presence of men. Are men more likely to be assaulted BY a woman in prison, or more likely THAN a woman to be assaulted in prison? Would appreciate a link if you have time.

Kindly stop calling people ‘cis’. It’s a banned word on Mumsnet, because we don’t need a made up word to describe people who are not trans.

Just to say, I didn't light the touch paper and run as someone suggested, it just got a bit too far beyond my political knowledge for me to chip in. In answer to some of the WSJ parents, my daughter's unit has only just been sent the UK contingent registration form which DID include a question about what gender she identified as, specifically for the purposes of sleeping arrangements, I do now feel quite reassured thanks to some of the other posts that she'll likely choose herself who she's in a tent with (hasn't happened at some other camps she's done). If she wants a relationship / to hop in and out of a sleeping bag with another scout of whatever gender or orientation that's entirely up to her and is not what I was posting or concerned about ( though I hope she doesn't 😕😁!)

No one gets offended when the shop assistant checks that your twenty pound note is not a forgery. It protects the business from the one or two people who carry forgeries.

No one should get offended that the sexes have segregated spaces in which to undress, find refuge, shower, sleep or the like. It protects the sexes from the one or two who are rapists or violent.

It's really that simple.

Sword I know it's simple, you know it's simple the whole world knows it's simple.

Except those who want to do away with safeguarding. I wonder why?

I suggest that Sweetheart and Avery have their own agenda and know nothing of the Scouts or, particularly the WSJ.

Brotherhood There will be between 30 000 and 40 000 Scouts there, not 10 000 .
The young people will have lived together in tents (and other residential situations possibly) many, many times before they go (indeed dd is off with her Unit again this weekend) and no-one will end up in a tent with anyone they in any way feel uncomfortable with.

Although the Jamboree is for 3 weeks not a weekend camp the option for scouts of either getting undressed or washed is rarely taken. In any case toilets and washing areas will be segregated.
They are young adults who have been camping together repeatedly before this event and none are forced to do anything they are not comfortable with. Safeguarding is drummed into both Scouts and leaders so although not impossible, problems are unlikely. You also need to see the situation through THEIR eyes and not yours.

Best to keep to single-sex sleeping, washing and changing facilities.
Because... all of human history.

"Because... all of human history."

And racial segregation because of human history?

And racial segregation because of human histor?

Stop using race as a comparison. That is racist.

Rape, sexual abuse and violence is mainly committed by the Male sex, because they are MALE, not because of their race. Women/girls are raped, sexually abused and have violence committed on them because they are FEMALE, not because of their race.

They are young adults who have been camping together repeatedly before this event and none are forced to do anything they are not comfortable with

And what about those who are rather too comfortable with it?

One of the very real reasons teenagers are separated by sex where they sleep is to prevent consensual sex not just assault or rape.

Bottom line, if you put the "girls" with penises in with the biological girls on camp, some of the girls will inevitably end up pregnant at camp. Especially if there are only 2 to a tent - get real!!

Are you comfortable with teen pregnancies being an outcome of scout camp?

That's why every uk unit takes condoms and every scout is and to ask for them without judgement

@PositivelyPERF

So, classification according to race is racist (in the face of facts). What is classification in the face of sex? Sexist? If not, what's the difference?

Do you not see the idiocy and hypocrisy in your statement. So woke you're asleep?

It's fascinating to see that you think that violence is committed by men because they are "MALE" [capitalisation from you] yet I bet you wouldn't agree with saying that the majority of rape victims are black because they're BLACK. That most muggers are black because of their race, that there aren't enough women CEOs because they're FEMALE.

You need to rethink your arguments.

You need to rethink your arguments

You need to stop trying to peddle your misogyny under the umbrella of inclusivity. you need to stop throwing women and girls under the bus to appease a sub set of men.

So you won't address any of my questions? Why not? I guess it's easier to say you're above replying to them than admitting you're a little stuck.

I haven't seen any girl Boy Scouts complaining. You're using them and throwing their inclusivity under the bus to suit your agenda? Children and young adults nowadays seem much more accepting whereas the older (outgoing) generation of a certain demographic are intent on 'protecting' them.

The broadening of 'misogyny' to include anything that disagrees with radical feminism does you no favours.

My ds is a 15 year old explorer who loves camping with them and goes off at every opportunity. He is very into rules and safeguarding etc. According to him there are no rules against girls sharing with boys in tents. They are segregated by age strictly ie a 15 year old explorer couldn't share with a 14 year old scout. Nothing about gender though. Indeed when he was off for a weekend him and one of his friends (girl) were going to share a tent. The leaders there at the time decided against this but that's their call. Otherwise afaik it would not be a problem.

Wouldn't bother me. Ds has been in scouting since beavers. He has a much healthier relationship with the opposite sex than I ever had because of it - I went to a single sex school and had little chance to interact with boys.

missusZee

The common element between black muggers and white muggers, is the fact that they the majority of them are Male, so your argument doesn’t actually work.

Children ard young adults are being bullied and gaslighted into believing people can change gender or even sex. That’s a downright lie. They are being brainwashed into putting the needs of a subset of men/boys, that pretend to be women/girls above their own needs. No change there, females have always made to feel responsible for men’s wellbeing.

the older (outgoing) generation of a certain demographic are intent on 'protecting' them

Thank fuck for the older generation. Someone needs to speak out for the young people and put their best interests first.

That's why every uk unit takes condoms and every scout is and to ask for them without judgement

So, you let the boys and girls share a tent then, do you?

If not - why not?

It’s quite likely that there is an agenda here too

He has a much healthier relationship with the opposite sex than I ever had because of it - I went to a single sex school and had little chance to interact with boys.

Yes, I totally agree encouraging girls and boys to mix is important.

I went to a girls school, and then a mixed school, and the attitude of girls towards boys was much healthier at the mixed school.

But that's not the same thing as where you choose they sleep.

Honestly the wilful naivety on this issue is shocking. And it's teenage girls who will suffer, because it's them who will have to deal with unwanted pregnancy.

Saying you provide condoms as a solution to the risk of teen pregnancy just shows you don't understand teenagers. Yes, having condoms available is a good harm minimisation strategy, but a much better one is not letting them sleep together in the first place.

Instead of you being the adult and protecting these young girls, you're saying the responsibility for them not getting pregnant lies with them. You expect a young teenager to stop unplanned sex in the middle of the night, to go wake up an adult and ask for condoms? Seriously? That's your plan for preventing teen pregnancy?

You are failing those girls.

@PositivelyPERF

"Someone needs to speak out for the young people "

And when these young people could be married, natal-parents, home owners etc. They still need you to look out for them because you know best?

How would you defend the position that you're a patronising and interfering arse?

missusZee. Right. So, you're on a site for parents, arguing that adults who feel responsibility for the welfare of young people are interfering arses?

Shall we rename the site "inteferingarsenet"?

It in the job description of parent to give a shit about the younger generation. And thank fuck for that.

How many 16 year olds do you know who are married, parents, homeowners and going on scout camps, btw?