Mixed sex scouts camping

[brotherhoodofspam]

DD going to America for 3 weeks with scouts for World Jamboree next Summer and we've recently completed the UK unit registration form which asks which gender she identfies as, for purposes of allocating sleeping arrangements. I have a lot of sympathy for people with genuine gender dysphoria but AIBU to be quite concerned that 16-18 yr old boys could potentially simply state that they feel female and end up sharing a tent with DD who will be 16 at the time? I suspect the scout movement feel their hands are tied and this is the only non discriminatory way to deal with this but it just doesn't feel properly thought through in terms of protecting teenage girls away from home for nearly a month I'm pretty sure nobody in Dad's unit identfies other than their biological sex so I don't think it will arise as an issue for her personally but I do feel pretty uncomfortable with the principle and think with a camp of 10000 scouts it might be an issue for some. Did any other parents of jamboree-going scouts have concerns about this? Our AIBU and very un-PC.

My understanding is that Explorer Scouts can have mixed tents, not even taking into account the trans issue.

Yes they can but TBH no explorer scout leader worth his/her salt would allow it

It's not just sexual assault / rape / PiV sex / pregnancy.

I would not get naked in front of my brother, dad or gay best friend. I don't want to see a penis when I'm getting changed. I do not want to deal with period flooding around male bodied people. These are not transphobic; they are boundaries, privacy and dignity and they are important.

Shocked at some of the lesbophobia here - lesbians are not "not female". Transwomen are, however, exclusively male.

What are the benefits of gender segregation as opposed to segregating by other personal character traits such as favourite type of music? SEX segregation and female only spaces however have been hard won, it's benefits proven, and is a cornerstone of a functioning society that Amnesty and the like recognise as essential in developing countries.

There seems to be some confusion over WHY we generally separate the sexes (not genders) in changing rooms and toilets. It's not because of sexual attraction - I've never heard of any woman complaining about sharing with a lesbian. It's due to 1) risk of assault and 2) embarrassment. Statistically, assault is far more likely to involve a male-bodied person and women are generally the weaker sex and less able to defend themselves. Secondly, most women have hang ups about their bodies and would prefer to change in front of others with similar bodies! Really it only makes sense to have separate changing rooms based on sex - gender identity doesn't really come into it. Where unisex changing rooms exist there are far more incidences of assault and voyeurism. (And of course it goes without saying that not all men or transwomen are a risk to women but we need to base the rules on probability).

I was a female scout from 15-18 (venture scouts) after guides. Sometimes mixed camping, sometimes not whatevwr the official rules said. It was fine. Your DD is

16 not 14, a big difference. Also in my experience those in scouting were generally sensible and respectful to all.

It will be an amazing experience for her, life changing and confidenve building. My time on international camp (Sweden) was awesome. Relax and encourage her to have a wonderful time x

Haven't read the full thread and I've been out of guiding for a good few years but in my experience the troup will only camp with their group so the question about specifying gender in relation to who she sleeps with is probably only relevant to her unit. Is there a male identifying as a female in her scout group? If so then there would be a possibility they would share her tent. If not though i don't see the worry. She isn't likely to be in a tent with a stranger from another scout troup. She might be in a tent with a lesbian/bisexual girl though so possibly still likely to be perved on, which seems to be the worry on the comments I've read.

Considering the jamboree is in North America and USA has only just begun to allow girls into the BSA (boy scouts of America) I can't imagine the jamboree would have unisex anything.
They would also have to provide disabled facilities, which our scout association recommends trans scouts use.
Along with recommendations that trans scouts sleep in their own sleeping pod and that the scouts are asked who they would like to share with i can see no reason for anyone to do anything they are uncomfortable with.

Can we also remember are talking about people who are still legally children not mature adults

She might be in a tent with a lesbian/bisexual girl though so possibly still likely to be perved on, which seems to be the worry on the comments I've read.

What comments have you been reading no-ones said anything remotely like that...

Isn’t it funny how many posters are screaming transphobia, while quiet happy to show their homophobic attitudes towards lesbians? That seems to be common amongst those who are quite happy to put girls at physical/sexual risk in order to save hurting the feelings of a confused male. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Indeed the homophobia on these type of threads is breathtaking, no one seems at all concerned about that though.

The most basic question that needs answering is: why do we have sex segregated spaces?

I mean, why not all mixed prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms, sleeping arrangements?

If there is no problem, then why not?

We all know it's only a small % of males (in the sense of those with xy) and a vanishingly small number of women (xx) who are violent, sexually assault or perve, so why are we not all in together?

I know why I think why not, but let's hear from those shouting "transphobic".

FrancesFryer

It's under reported.

Official figures indicate that between a fifth and a third of all cases of child sexual abuse in the UK involve “perpertrators” under the age of 18 – but the figures could in fact be much higher. In a random UK general population survey of more than 6,000 people, a staggering two-thirds of the sexual abuse reported by respondents in their childhoods, had been committed by other children.

That's from the Independent. Used to have a better source, but can't find it atm.

Oh definitely. All sexual assault is under reported.
It still doesn't change the fact that there is more chance of it happening at school and even at home than at the WSJ and that it was fairly low on my list of worries when mine attended.
Probably top of my list of worries was them losing their passports as they are all responsible for their own

Sounds ok to me as girls who think they are boys can sleep in with the males, it's called equility.

My 13 year old son is going as part of the NZ scout contingent. We only had two options to tick ... male or female.

He went to the national jamboree last year with many International scouts attending, all very well organised asexpected by Scouts.

Your question turns both ways, as a parent of a 13 year old boy, would I be Happy with this? Yes, as I trust the Scout organisation, my son's common sense and the leaders he is going with.

On the flip side - my 14 year old DS Explorer Scout was made to share a tent with two female explorer scouts on the last camp. We were not aware of these arrangements prior to the camp. He slept in his clothes as he didn't take pyjamas with him (summer camp vey hot weather). He came home tired, irritable and stinking. He said it was so awkward that he wanted to quit explorers if this was how it was going to be.

The reason for the mixed sleeping arrangements was there were more girls than boys and they didn't have enough tents to make up a boys only tent. I went loopy at the leader. He now has his own personal tent which I bought him to take on camp that fits into his backpack.

Boys can feel awkward/uncomfortable when they are in the minority also.

OP you do realise that boys and girls are allowed, at the permit holders discretion, to share accommodation on Scout camp regardless of which gender they identify as? Its subject to risk assessments and the views of the young people and parents but it does happen. Are they suddenly more of a risk because they identify as female?

Its subject to risk assessments and the views of the young people and parents but it does happen.

The guilds are not permitted to let the parents know that a boy that wanted to be a girl, is a member of guilds and they cannot be risk assessed as that would be transphobic.

But we're talking about scouts not guides

I don’t think you’re male justbereasonable, the ‘you’ referred to anyone in that position, not you personally. Apples if that’s how you read it - not my intention.
I’ve taken teenage guides to a mixed jamboree. 6000 teenagers with no parents. There is no way in this sweet earth I would be allowing mixed sex sleeping or showering. None. Nada. Zilch.
I’ve also had out lesbian guides. No one gives a damn.
Having safeguarding responsibility for a group of teenage girls in a foreign country, with hordes of teenage boys around is a testing experience

Lol at apples. No fruit based rebuff, just autocorrect. Apols. Obv.

I'm shocked and saddened that any girl should need to come into contact with a male.

Bloody potential rapists, the lot of them. Endangering females and eroding our spaces.The sooner they stop males being in Boy Scouts the better.

Its Scoob

Yes, yes. Really easy to take the piss. Less easy to take up a coherent argument and run with

One thing I don't get is why girls don't go to brownies or guides, as they're pretty much similar. I don't think I've heard of a boy wanting to join brownies / guides but you do hear of girls at cubs / scouts.

@LadybirdsAreBirds

I've often thought that when it's really easy to take the piss, you need to carefully consider your standpoint and if it's ridiculous.

As many Scouts could be married, have mortgages, have children, be Scout leaders, I think it's hysteria and those who are getting all irate need to think about statistics and get a grip.

I suspect that the journey there will be far more dangerous than the camp.