AIBU to be shocked that the NSPCC cancelled their Facebook Live session with Mumsnetters, because they didn't like the questions? That they can't explain why they aren't putting children in danger?

[loveyouradvice]

I am reeling from this - Mumsnet promoted a Facebook Live for Thursday 12.30... to talk about keeping Kids safe from Abuse, and to publicise their PANTS and SpeakOut StaySafe campaigns.

NSPCC just didn't turn up - and only 4 hours later published a brief statement that said nothing!!!! So lots of people waiting for a no show.

It is fine for them to have the policies they have - IF THEY CAN EXPLAIN that they really are in all children's best interests and that they aren't putting girls at risk..... They haven't even tried to do that... Just ignored us and run. Ignored MUMSNET - which is full of people who raise or give money to the NSPCC, and who use it.

HOW??? I am bewildered beyond words.....

Oh ... and hopefully clicky link here of the questions Mumsnetters asked - really thoughtful cogent ones!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_facebook_live/a3343961-Facebook-Live-about-talking-to-kids-about-staying-safe-from-abuse-with-NSPCC

I think the fact that the NSPCC were unwilling to answer questions reflects poorly on them, not the people asking the questions.
If they are content their policies and advice are sound, well evidenced and robust then they should own them publicly.
There are a lot of people who are anxious about child safety and having concerns around the potential abuse of self ID by perverts is not trans bashing.
I have sent a message to the NSPCC about their no show for the webchat. I'm a regular donor to them and would like to know why they cancelled.

When an organisation as reputable as the NSPCC (how often do we see the advice "call the NSPCC" given on here?) can't see a path through the trans posts to discuss child safety, something has gone very wrong.

That's right, something has gone wrong with the NSPCC if they can't allay the concerns in those 'anti-trans' posts.

Concerns about children being hurried into deciding they are trans.
Concerns about adults being allowed into positions of trust by declaring themselves to be female, when they are not.
Concerns about what might happen if single-sex spaces and situations are allowed to be mixed-sex because some people claim that they have changed gender.

These concerns are very relevant to the stated topic of the session (which the NSPCC bottled out of).

Spirited, in your experience, would you say abusers sometimes/often go to extraordinary lengths to a) normalise abuse b) create opportunities for abuse - positions of trust etc - and c) prevent children from speaking up about abuse?

I am concerned that organisations like schools, youth groups, Girl Guides etc are making themselves and the children they look after vulnerable to abusers who will look to exploit self ID loopholes.

Not that trans people are abusers. That the new laws of Self ID and social pressures around not “saying the wrong thing” create opportunities for abusers to exploit children.

We all know an awful lot of abuse happens in the home, in fact I believe statistically the person most likely to abuse a child during childhood ‘is an unrelated male living in the same house’ ie Mums boyfriend/stepfathers ( to prevent cry’s of NAMALT I know there are amazing stepdads who are far better than the original sperm donor)

It is KNOWN that predators groom single mothers to access their children.

It is also KNOWN that predators groom entire organisations or train for years for specific careers or put in hundreds and hundreds of hours as a volunteer in order to access victims. Ie how many priests, scout leaders, care home workers have been found to be paedophiles.

Jimmy Savile groomed this entire fucking nation, posed with our prime minister and was worshipped by charity’s.

The NSPCC should have some critical thinking skills and professional curiosity and be extremely good at recognising grooming so that they can onto a parenting site with TWELVE MILLION unique users and explain to parents what grooming is and how to protect their children from it, especially online.

What’s the stats on predators pretending to trans in order to access children? I’ve been in the police 20 years and I’ve never dealt with a case or come across one.

Have you ever had a case where a man has abused a young girl in the female toilets or changing rooms?

This is worth a read
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-pests-target-women-in-mixed-changing-rooms-x3vw2lnv8?shareToken=a36cd3cca958c161bdf7b0241542caa0

Mixed sex changing spaces etc. are a problem.
Allowing people of the opposite sex into a sex segregated space makes it a mixed sex space.

Spirited, in your experience, would you say abusers sometimes/often go to extraordinary lengths to a) normalise abuse b) create opportunities for abuse - positions of trust etc - and c) prevent children from speaking up about abuse?

Yes I agree that they do - but your emphasis on external organisations belies the fact that it’s more likely to occur within the family setting. That of course makes it more uncomfortable to consider because no-one wants to think of it within their family. We want to be able to recognise it... we want to look and recognise it when we see it which is why we latch onto a particular looking person “ he looks like a right paedo”. In addition I’m talking about all types of abuse including physical and neglect and the emphasis here seems to be on sexual abuse.

Neglect,Physical, Sexual, and Emotional Abuse are all equally damaging.

Being subjected to neglect and/or emotional abuse in your own home by your own parents is particularly damaging as it leaves you with low self esteem and poor boundaries and then your are an ideal target for being groomed for CSE (particularly online) and/or spending your adult life in abusive relationships.

Family ‘friends’ and other trusted adults are also likely to abuse children as well as family members.

Stranger abduction is incredibly rare, but it does happen. The stranger danger campaign was a mistake as it distracted from abuse within families. Claiming that all abuse is by family members would also be a mistake as it distracts from the problem of people abusing children after they have groomed the child and sometimes also the surrounding family/adults who should have kept the child safe.

Because it would be hugely vulnerable to being hijacked by both transactivists and GC groups to be one an online fight with the NSPCC message getting lost.

Supposition though. It makes me wonder how the NSPCC actually deals with real life situations.

If the question of safeguarding had arose regarding Islamic communities, Hasidic or Roma communities or perhaps even those who went to an all Catholic school, would there be the same response?

The NSPCC has shown that it fails all children and their parents when it comes to safeguarding. Simply because when hard questions are asked, the response is SILENCE.

For anyone looking for alternative charities for their donations, I've heard that this is a good one, based in North Shields if anyone prefers to go for smaller, local groups rather than a nationwide charity.

www.someonecares.org.uk/

I've not seen this mentioned yet (but just skimmed so may have missed it).

One of my big safeguarding concerns is that all of the advice re a child disclosing to you that they are trans is to keep the disclosure secret

So no opportunity to discuss concerns with someone else, no opportunity to explore things which could have caused the child to feel this way (like abuse!).

but your emphasis on external organisations belies the fact that it’s more likely to occur within the family setting.

So should we not bother about safeguarding at all in schools, churches, scouts, guides, other voluntary organisations etc? Should we tell them they can just ditch their DBS checks, their safeguarding policies and not bother? Not doing adequate safeguarding in these areas (which includes considering how self-ID impacts on safeguarding) doesn't make children in abusive families any safer.

@SpiritedLondon

Do you or do you not believe that certain spaces should remain segregated by biological sex? Or do you think we should just go for mixed sex toilets, changing rooms and prisons everywhere?

I never dealt with a trans person or anyone who used that as a methodology.

Spirited, is it not possible that cultural/technological changes may give rise to new methodologies, then? I mean, there was no online grooming before there was an internet to facilitate it, but when it started happening I assume you didn’t think ‘Well, we’ve never seen this before so it can’t be happening now or happen ever?’.

How much data will you need to accumulate before you’re satisfied there may be an issue?

For all the posters dismissing these issues as transphobia, here's a court judgement about child J who was repeatedly emotionally abused because social workers listened to trans groups rather than schools and other professionals who were concerned that J (a boy) was not a transgender girl as his mother claimed but in fact a boy.

It's really interesting as it details the process and how those social workers with the legal responsibilities for protecting him failed abysmally as they followed the mantra from trans groups (Mermaids) rather than looking at the real harm being done to him by his (mentally unwell) mother. It's a sobering example of what happens when professionals fail to centre children and follow the false ideologies of some trans groups. It's long but nails the problem!

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html

Just went on childline site for a look

They have forums the one for gender I looked at first 3 threads, all girls, 11, 13, 15, all saying they are confused and don't know who they are, they don't like "girl" things and so maybe they are trans. Other posters saying yeah may be demi boy etc and "sounds like you have gender dysphoria".

When people on here have talked about children getting pointed in that direction on net etc I though it was USA, tumblr etc. Not childline! I'm a bit taken aback

I've said this before (mainly in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3346996-AIBU-to-be-very-concerned-about-some-of-the-people-that-our-political-leaders-are-listening-to-Warning-includes-reference-to-child-sexual-abuse) but just within the last couple of months we've had very prominent and influential transactivists in the UK:

1. accused (and seemingly pretty much admitting to) indecent exposure/sexual acts in public
2. convicted of the absolutely horrific torture, sexual abuse and rape of a young girl
3. continuing to use said rapist as their election agent and failing to notify their political party
4. naming as their 'hero' a former member of the Paedophile Information Exchange who continues to advocate for paedophiles

That's 4 different UK transactivists, all very influential and that is just the ones that have come to light in the last couple of months.

And no that doesn't mean that I think trans people are more likely to be predators than other males but I have realised that some very unsavoury people are jumping on this cause because they see an opportunity being presented to them. And with self-ID (and the removal of the requirement for a medical diagnosis) there is no need for any of these people to actually be trans (ie have gender dysphoria) in order to take advantage of the safeguarding loopholes it offers.

For those who think I'm overly suspicious - Answer me this, David Challenor was convicted of holding captive, sexually torturing and raping one 10-year-old girl. His other 'interests' included being a scout leader, coaching children's gymnastics, involvement in children's charities and supporting the push for self-ID. While he was only convicted of offences against one child (which were so horrific he has been sentenced to 22 years in prison), do you really believe that it was a one-off and that all his other interests were motivated by benevolent intentions??

Because I don't. I believe he volunteered for all these other organisations because they gave him access to children and he was passionate about self-ID because he (as a male who liked dressing up and identifying as a girl part-time) saw opportunities with that too.

When people on here have talked about children getting pointed in that direction on net etc I though it was USA, tumblr etc. Not childline! I'm a bit taken aback

Fuck! I too thought the issues were tumblr/instagram etc

Oh for fuck sake, you've done WHAT now??

Christ alive, I am SO FUCKING ANGRY, for all your bleating about women and children it's quite clear from this you don't give a shit. You literally don't.

You have sold a fuck ton of vulnerable children whose parents may have come across that Q&A down the river in a MASSIVE fucking way, and for what? You'll tell me it was to protect the one sensitive girl who happens to brush shoulders with that rare trans child with enough confidence to change openly with the girls, and I say to you...

WHAT ABOUT ALL THE THOUSANDS OF OTHER CHILDREN YOU'VE JUST FUCKED OVER??

You're a fucking disgrace, all of you on this petty crusade. I hope MN are sick to the back teeth of you.

What a shame that the obsession with trans bashing has led to the cancellation of what would have been a useful session.

This.

The NSPCC isn't government. They're doing the best they can. They had a message to get out (not about the trans issue but about many more common forms of abuse) and no parents here were interested, it seems.

Excellent points tiredandweary and PimmsnLemonade

Omfg just looked at other forums. Girls disclosing being raped at school, with like 1 reply saying sorry to hear that. Don't they have mods/ councillors reading this stuff and getting in touch with the children? I'm gobsmacked. Wtf???

RatRolyPoly
What question did you ask the NSPCC?

It's great that this board has so many women who centre women and children's safety. Those who centre the rights of the predators really need to give their heads a wobble ( and go and do some reading about the realities of child abuse) .

Ok that's just not right.

Children are going on the childline forums and reporting crimes and it's just, left.

Sure some of them will be pervy adult men making it up but not all of them by a long chalk.

I don't get it. Can anyone help me understand what this utter shit is.