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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be shocked that the NSPCC cancelled their Facebook Live session with Mumsnetters, because they didn't like the questions? That they can't explain why they aren't putting children in danger?

999 replies

loveyouradvice · 02/09/2018 13:37

I am reeling from this - Mumsnet promoted a Facebook Live for Thursday 12.30... to talk about keeping Kids safe from Abuse, and to publicise their PANTS and SpeakOut StaySafe campaigns.

NSPCC just didn't turn up - and only 4 hours later published a brief statement that said nothing!!!! So lots of people waiting for a no show.

It is fine for them to have the policies they have - IF THEY CAN EXPLAIN that they really are in all children's best interests and that they aren't putting girls at risk..... They haven't even tried to do that... Just ignored us and run. Ignored MUMSNET - which is full of people who raise or give money to the NSPCC, and who use it.

HOW??? I am bewildered beyond words.....

Oh ... and hopefully clicky link here of the questions Mumsnetters asked - really thoughtful cogent ones!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_facebook_live/a3343961-Facebook-Live-about-talking-to-kids-about-staying-safe-from-abuse-with-NSPCC

OP posts:
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10
LemonJello · 05/09/2018 19:26

Let me rephrase then.

I don’t want to get changed next to a transwoman tho.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 05/09/2018 19:27

even foster parents

Hmmmmmmm. Now let's see. Are there any differences between foster parents and parents?

titchy · 05/09/2018 19:28

It’s probably similar to policy around HIV positive children when even foster parents aren’t told -

Did you read the policy? It specifically states parents are not to be informed about their child's trans status. Emily in year 7 could be going to school every morning and when she's there all the teachers call her Edward and she changes with the boys in their changing room. Emily's parents must not be told.

It's nothing to do with HIV and foster parents at all. Confused

SpiritedLondon · 05/09/2018 19:33

Crikey ladies ease off. What I was saying is that issues of confidentiality are not unusual in safeguarding policy documents. I don’t know this policy and I’m not advocating for or against anything.

Regarding my “ snarky comments” - it wasn’t intended as a snarky comment, it was a genuine question. You perceive it to be snarky because it suits you to see me as the enemy ( and maybe you enjoy the drama. )

tillytop · 05/09/2018 19:41

Warning grim, maybe triggering. YouTube Women decide for yourselves If anyone can find the link, would be helpful.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 05/09/2018 19:42

No sorry. regarding my “ snarky comments” - it wasn’t intended as a snarky comment, it was a genuine question. You perceive it to be snarky because it suits you to see me as the enemy ( and maybe you enjoy the drama.) That's just more bollocks. She quoted something that you'd said which was offensive and you said Well if you found it so offensive why have you repeated it? That's snarky. If you didn't mean it to be then you need to work on your tone in written communications.

But you know it fine well. 'Maybe I'm dyslexic', 'I didn't mean it like that'. If you're going to be a wanker to strangers on the Internet then at least own it.

FermatsTheorem · 05/09/2018 19:51

Anyway, back on track.

98% of incarcerated sex offenders in the UK are male. 6% of men surveyed on American campuses admitted to behaviour which would meet the legal definition of rape.

I think in view of this I would like single sex spaces - not just toilets, but open-plan, communal changing areas, women's rape crisis centres, women's domestic violence shelters, women's prisons - to remain single sex.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 05/09/2018 19:52

Gosh we're nearing the magic 1000. I think this has gone really well personally. Shame we won't be here later for Rat to find us but I'm sure Rat will sniff us out.

YANBU OP. Grin

ocelot41 · 05/09/2018 20:04

What a shame NSPCC withdrew. I would genuinely like to have heard about what research they have that this is not currently a problem - as well as what they think it won't be a problem in future. If all a male person has to do is pretend to be trans to walk into all sorts of female only spaces, that would seem to be a problem waiting to happen to me?

SpiritedLondon · 05/09/2018 20:16

Ok well I doubt there’s anything more to be gained by continuing to debate. The thing is I’ve always associated as a feminist and I’ve always wondered why a woman today wouldn’t want to do that. I agree with lots of the points that you’re trying to make - but I don’t agree with everything and I should feel free to be able to express those views. The only way that real change can happen is if a large number of people are persuaded by a cause and get behind a campaign - it can be powerful stuff ( I’m thinking of the women’s marches in recent times). To do that you have to persuade men and women who hold more moderate views or who may not be as well versed with some of the material as you are. I’m certainly not familiar with a lot of the terminology and terms of abuse that you bandy about so freely Sea Lion etc and I’m not following some sinister agenda in the way that you have conveyed me. I actually enjoy debating and finding out about subjects and I although I’m not very au fait with proposed changes I would interested in discussing it more if it was done in a way that wasn’t so hostile. It’s fine to disagree, and I can be as bolshy as the next person on this thread but I don’t think your approach is working in your favour. I think a lot of people have probably glanced at this thread and decided it’s just not worth the hassle to get involved. It’s a shame - you’re just going to be left agreeing with each other.

  • as instructed I’m owning my shit - ‘bitch’ was my term and I’m keeping it. You don’t own feminism.
CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 05/09/2018 20:30

We're fucking feministing wrong AGAIN. Grin

For all those lurkers who would like to see feministing done wrong in its natural setting the Feminism Chat board is

FermatsTheorem · 05/09/2018 20:35

And again, getting back on track.

The NSPCC's PANTS campaign.

P = privates are private
A = always remember your body belongs to you
N = no means no
T = talk about it (i.e. don't allow an adult to coerce you into keeping secrets).
S = speak up, someone can help.

The trans material going into schools from organisations who are uncritically pro-self-ID cuts across this.

So - male bodied teen identifies as a transgirl. They should be allowed into girls' changing rooms according to these guidelines - and screw the P, A and N bit for the girls already there. If they object, they're the bigots.

Teen of either sex goes to see a teacher because they're confused about their feelings of dysphoria about their body during puberty (not unusual in teens) and feelings of gender confusion (not surprisingly in a society which is increasingly intolerant of gender non-conforming individuals). The trans teaching materials suggest that the teacher should keep everything in the strictest confidence - not inform other teachers, those with responsibility for safeguarding, and particularly not the child's parents. At that point, there goes the T and S of PANTS too.

That's the whole point of this thread - the PANTS rule is about good safeguarding practice, some of the materials going into schools purportedly supporting trans youngsters goes directly against this long established code of practice (drawn up the hard way, through a whole series of catastrophic safeguarding failures) and the NSPCC is not prepared to talk about this - to parents who are raising concerns.

That's what this thread is about. We mustn't let goady fuckers derail it and lose sight of the main issue.

MipMipMip · 05/09/2018 21:25

Very well said Fermats.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 05/09/2018 21:27

Thank you Fermats you are right of course. Smile And thanks for the reminder about PANTS itself. Which is great advice and is EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ENSURE IS KEPT.

And also everyone can see them derailing, obfuscating, refusing to address points. So that's good. Nothing makes people see how poor this ideology is quite so well as those who espouse it.

Ereshkigal · 05/09/2018 22:43

How many years has that been used to show a poster is not posting in good faith?

Quite. But though that person I think has claimed to have been on MN in the past she doesn't seem to have ventured far from the trans threads or she would be aware of its common usage all across the boards on a whole range of topics.

FermatsTheorem · 05/09/2018 23:01

(Though I have to admit, it was a classic piece of derailing, using those two tried-and-tested-techniques of me-railing, i.e. make it all about them rather than the issue, and oppression top trumps. "Are you saying I have a stammer?" "I could be dyslexic - what about that, huh, huh? Are you poking fun at someone who's dyslexic?")

Still disappointed in the NSPCC. In a week where the absolute epidemic of sexual assault in schools has been headline news, they can't see any tension between supporting trans identifying biologically male teens and the girls who will be expected to share changing rooms with them, or overnight accommodation on school trips. NB I'm not saying trans-identifying teens are sexual predators, far from it, just that given the epidemic levels of sexual violence in schools, there will be girls who do not want to share personal space with penises, regardless of how those penis-owners identify - and that their wish not to share intimate space with penis owners should be respected.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 05/09/2018 23:03

The stammer bit was weird

I obviously missed the relevance

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 05/09/2018 23:08

No I didn't get it either Rufus. I assumed it was Twitter-speak for 'I have been assimilated by the trans-borg'.

Good work here Fermats. Shall I sweep up and you turn out the lights?

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 05/09/2018 23:14

Aaah

Im not down with the youth speak...

Which is a relief at times to be honest

MrsHoodwink · 05/09/2018 23:33

They’re appalling and I often tell people not to donate, they’re interested in money alone

As a child I called them saying I was being hit at home, my parent took the phone off me, told them I was exaggerating after being “told off” and subsequently gave me a beating after hanging up

No social services, no intervention, nothing ever came of the call (not even when I tried a second time)... I had begged them to help me get taken away into foster care Sad Still hurts to think back that noone batted an eyelid. It also caused me to give up hope ever asking anyone for help and I didn’t escape til I was a teenager and able to rent my own house

As a child that was the only telephone number I could possibly know, I’d wrote it down off an advert and was told the police were “bad” so avoided them

I prefer to help smaller charities who still care hope people start seeing what the NSPCC really are!

MrsHoodwink · 05/09/2018 23:39

Got off on a bit of a tangent there, anyhoo I’m pro trans-rights and still completely believe it’s every young female/male’s right to not have to share changing facilities/rooms with those with the opposite genitalia (regardless of gender or sexual orientation)

That being said many girls felt uncomfortable and unsafe getting changed around lesbians during my school years but that was all perpetuated from homophobia Hmm As they weren’t any more inclined to sexual deviancy than anybody else? I assume the same goes for trans

If the NSPCC want to promote certain things they absolutely should be responding to the questions of concerned parents

MipMipMip · 06/09/2018 00:39

&MrsHoodwink* Flowers

Datun · 06/09/2018 01:26

It’s fine to disagree, and I can be as bolshy as the next person on this thread but I don’t think your approach is working in your favour.

I know someone is washing up the cups and locking up, but I just wanted to point out that in one year access to this site specifically via these boards has increased from 15,000 women to 177,000.

I'd say that's working in our favour.

RatRolyPoly · 06/09/2018 07:20

I'd say that's working in our favour.

If by "working in your favour" you mean a load of people signposted here by Twitter hoping to gawp at the "transphobes in their natural habitat".

PS not calling you transphobes, but they do on Twitter I believe.

ShrodingersSturdyPyjamas · 06/09/2018 07:21

PS not calling you transphobes, but they do on Twitter I believe

Weren't you called a racist on twitter not so long ago?