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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I’m “cheating” because DS is going to private school 🙄

217 replies

cinderellaeggs · 21/08/2018 13:05

MIL just found out that DS is going to private school and announced that we are “cheating” and it’s “not fair” because SIL’s children can’t go.

It’s not a competition!

OP posts:
FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 22/08/2018 10:54

" passing the 11+ is cheating and taking the children to a museum or local history spot in the holidays to review or get a jump on a school project is cheating. "

blimey is she in a race to the bottom or what?
ignore, ignore, ignore.

Original poster
cinderellaeggs · 22/08/2018 11:24

FourFried No one is allowed to do better. Everyone has to be the same.

Word has got around the family now. That didn’t take long 🙄.

OP posts:
FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 22/08/2018 11:29

I can almost kind of understand people who are against private schools, but in this case, she should keep her opinions to herself.
But being against cultural or educational trips is just ...weird tbh.

Original poster
cinderellaeggs · 22/08/2018 11:30

Do people on this thread really believe that tutoring is “cheating”?

Where is the line crossed? Is reading or revising at home with parents ok? Are those parents allowed to study the exams and make preparation or does that make them akin to a cheating tutor? What if your parent/aunt/uncle is a tutor, are they not allowed to work with the children?

Don’t tell me you mean no adult intervention at all unless it comes from school and the rest is cheating?!

OP posts:
Lweji · 22/08/2018 11:31

Do people on this thread really believe that tutoring is “cheating”?

Do you mean some people or all people? The answer could be yes or no.

Blondebakingmumma · 22/08/2018 11:37

Bwahaha funniest thing I have read all day. But in all seriousness the SIL could quit smoking and spend the money on education if she wanted 🤷‍♀️

Original poster
cinderellaeggs · 22/08/2018 11:45

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast The trips thing is absolutely because SIL doesn’t do that stuff with her children. Not for any monetary reason, they go to places like Alton Towers which is more expensive than the local free museum or castle, they just don’t go. However, SIL’s children’s cousins do (SIL’s husband’s sister’s children!) and MIL has always decried it. She acts as if it an act of hostility against her personally lol!

OP posts:
LayOfTheLand · 22/08/2018 11:47

OP, if you're so convinced that there's nothing inherently unfair with private schooling, why does what your MIL think bother you so much?

Original poster
cinderellaeggs · 22/08/2018 11:50

Lweji the ones who have said they can see why it’s cheating. I am wondering g if they have thought it through.

OP posts:
Original poster
cinderellaeggs · 22/08/2018 11:52

LayOfTheLand it doesn’t bother me at all. I am amused by her cheating concept!

OP posts:
LayOfTheLand · 22/08/2018 12:04

the ones who have said they can see why it’s cheating. I am wondering g if they have thought it through.

I'm one of those and I've clearly thought it through. It's fine to disagree though. You are buying an advantage for your son, that is not available to others. This advantage is likely to put your son ahead in the queue when it comes to jobs and university places. Because there are only so many places available at Oxbridge, or whatever, it makes the advantages that your DS has detrimental to others (indirectly).

Is it legal? Yes.

Is it natural? Quite probably

Is it fair? That's a question where people will disagree and make different ethical judgements. I and many others would argue that something so fundamental as good quality education (and good quality health care) should not at the whim of family finances, and that it what makes it unfair. There's an argument that because the elite can effectively buy their way out of the state schooling system, then there is less incentive to invest in good schools.

It is your choice, and your ethical judgement, but don't make out that those that think private education is unfair haven't thought about it.

eggsandwich · 22/08/2018 12:17

I think she doesn’t understand what the word cheating means, which is probably down to her lack of education which probably comes from her parents thinking that trying to better yourself other than the traditional route is outrageous.

Maybe give her a dictionary for Christmas so she can understand the meaning of the wordGrin

LayOfTheLand · 22/08/2018 12:21

Maybe give her a dictionary for Christmas so she can understand the meaning of the word

Just as long as it's not a copy of the OED, or it might be embarrassing.

Cheekyandfreaky · 22/08/2018 12:24

I think this is such an interesting discussion. We all make choices- some limited by finances, others by time, some by motivation.

Is it fair that some children don’t attend nursery but others do? Is it fair that some children eat home cooked meals and others have ready-meals? Is it fair that some shop at Primark and others wear designer?

None of it is equal- but i think it’s fair for individuals to make decisions based on their circumstances.

Xenia · 22/08/2018 12:37

I agree with Cheeky (and Lay's points I understand although I don't see why education above all other differences between people should be pinpointed).

Also what some people think is an advantage others don't. I went back to work full time with small babies and that is one reason I could afford school fees (paid my last of those last year although now I fund the children without loans at university which again some would say another unfairness). Yet you could also say it is unfair some women stop work when children are born and don't do a long hours job for 30 years and plenty my age (50s) do not do much work at all by that age nor much housework and childcare either. We all make choices about life.

Tha absolute enthusiasm of the less well off to better htemselves through night school and education has been lost to some but not all. I remember going to Adult Education classes in Newcastle as a teenage in the 1970s and my grandfather left school at aged 12 and read and read and read, took himself off to the cheapest seats at the theatre etc all to get himself educated. Whereas the mother in law here is the opposite of that.

The pure communist view is children belong to the state. They will be cared mjostly for the state sometimes even in residential homes - the early Israelis kibbutism did that too as do some cult groups like Children of God did and the FLDS taking even babies away from mothers so sever the bond and ensure the child could be treated identically to other children so no one had an advantage, like China sending doctors to the countryside to sweet out toilets in the cultural revolution to rid society of an elite class. I can certainly understand all those attempts to rid societies of advantage but on the whole I see it as trying to kill the love and natural instinct a parent has to help protect and care for their child. Even Jesus said abandon your spouse and follow me which is quite a tall order and not necessarily in the best interests of people.

Bumpitybumper · 22/08/2018 12:37

@LayOfTheLand
I agree completely with what you've written.

I think there is a bit of cognitive dissonance going on here as people like to believe they are fair, decent people that support social mobility and believe that hardwork and talent should be rewarded. However people are also keen to give themselves and their own children every possible advantage which of course inevitably skews the system and provides them with more opportunities, wealth etc than they should be merit have. These additional benefits are of course at the expense of someone else and that's the bit that some people find difficult to reconcile, it isn't a win:win scenario and there will be some losers who sadly didn't have the invested parents and resources through no fault of their own.

You can sneer at people expressing concern about the people that lose out and laugh about how every parental effort could be seen as "cheating" but at the heart of the issue is a very real problem for those people born to parents without the means or resources to give them the advantage your son has received.

Lweji · 22/08/2018 12:37

Just as long as it's not a copy of the OED, or it might be embarrassing.

Doesn't that also depend on the OED's definition of "unfair"? Wink

Bumpitybumper · 22/08/2018 12:46

@Cheekyandfreaky
But eating home cooked meals or wearing designer clothes doesnt have the same impact on someone's long-term prospects as a good education. I think the thing that really irritates me is the percentage of pupils that attend private schools is so small and yet it makes up such a large proportion of the students accepted into prestigious courses at prestigious universities. Lots of private schools don't have particularly rigorous entry exams so it's not like all of the country's bright minds should be concentrated there so why do we as a society support this? Aren't we essentially throwing away true talent and potential in favour of those that have just had the means and resources to access the best education? There must be a way we can look into removing the bias that private school can create so candidates and their achievements can be viewed in the context of their education thus far. I know some effort has been made to do this but I would like to see this implemented properly.

LayOfTheLand · 22/08/2018 12:51

Doesn't that also depend on the OED's definition of "unfair"?

"Unfair: Not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality and justice."

Smile

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/unfair

yoghurtmaker · 22/08/2018 12:56

I did a lot more homework/revising than many of my peers because I wanted to get on. State school > Cambridge. Couldn’t afford a tutor but tutored by dad, took every extra class going, spent Saturdays in the library and badgered people to test me lol!

Was I a cheat?

LayOfTheLand · 22/08/2018 12:59

I agree with Cheeky (and Lay's points I understand although I don't see why education above all other differences between people should be pinpointed).

I'll just briefly respond here. I would take the view, that in order to optimise equality of opportunity, rather than equality of outcome, and maximise well-being, while balancing it with all the other things we cherish (family relationships, liberty, and so on), certain areas like health and education should be as level a playing field as possible.

yoghurtmaker · 22/08/2018 13:00

“Aren't we essentially throwing away true talent and potential in favour of those that have just had the means...”

When I was at school, the mantra was if you were bright you’d “get on anywhere”. Don’t you think that is the case anymore?

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 22/08/2018 13:19

Sounds like MIL would be ok about private schools if SILs DC's went to one?

I just wouldn't get into any dialogue with her from now on regarding the subject. It's none of her business.

Bumpitybumper · 22/08/2018 13:30

@yoghurtmaker
I think someone given a relatively inferior education will almost certainly underachieve academically. So a very smart person will probably still do very well but may not reach the academic heights they would have if they had received a better education. Conversely someone with a superior education will generally overachieve, although I think other factors can influence this relationship a bit more.

I received a mediocre/poor education and I think that bridging the gap and trying to find out what you don't even know you don't know is really difficult. I do believe it's hard if not impossible for a student from a mediocre state school to compete with a student at most private schools even if they have the exact same level of raw intelligence and ability.

Query1 · 22/08/2018 13:45

Your MIL is a silly cow. Tell her to piss off and move on with your life as far away from her as you can!