I’m “cheating” because DS is going to private school 🙄

[cinderellaeggs]

MIL just found out that DS is going to private school and announced that we are “cheating” and it’s “not fair” because SIL’s children can’t go.

It’s not a competition!

Lovemusic33 I think she feels cheated. Now DH has explained it I think she feels that others cheat her and SIL out of stuff.

puzzledlady yes, if SIL’s children were allowed to “cheat” also, all would be well.

Yes I've never understood why doing the best for your children is a moral wrong. That applies across everything from cuddling them to laughing with them to reading to them, to sitting day in day out through their piano practice, hearing their times tables, getting them to bed on time, singing them songs, buying them healthy foods. Noe of these things are wickedness any more than moving from a slum to a posh area with lovely posh comps is a wickedness.

so you think that poor us who send their children to a state school are not doing our best for our children? What sort of moral superiority do you think that private schools have exactly?

So by definition of many posters here, people who are at the lower end of the income spectrum and can't send their children to a private school are not doing the best for the child? It's a very strange perception that you have there...

Twofishfingers who are you talking to?

To be clear, MIL doesn’t give a stuff about the wider community, just her own family.

Why do people even engage in such a discussion? Learn to say Right, and nothing else. If you refuse to engage it really annoys them, can be great fun, closed words like Right, Fine, Really are very useful.

Your MIL just sounds bitter and jealous.. I’m not why though, I actually don’t rate private school above public 🤷🏻‍♀️

Does your SIL have issues with it or is it just MIL?

The main things that determine a child's educational outcomes are:

• genes
• parental support
• class cohort

The only one of these that parents can seriously influence is the seconds even if you pay you don't know who else will be in your child's class, whether they will find good friends or feel like a fish out of water. If you read with your young children every day, engage in interesting conversations with them and encourage them with their home work, so that they develop a good work ethic, then your children have a good chance of doing well, regardless of whether they are at a fee paying school or not. So next time your MiL mentions this, just point out that you are sure your SiL does an excellent job on that front and that this isn't cheating.

I think cheating is not quite the right language, but you are buying an unfair advantage for your DS

Well it is unfair that these advantages are not available to all children, but that is what we should want, not the denial of quality of life and education to every child.

Genevieva you can buy 'class cohort' with private education and is very important reason why parents are prepared to pay for private.

Sure, you cannot guarantee the social aspects but you can guarantee that your child will be learning with children of other parents who value education enough to pay substantial sums for it (caveat: this is not to say state school parents don't value education). This results in high expectations required by the school and the parents working together.

It is less effective if it is only the parents are supporting the child but all around the child are their friends who place less value on achievement or good grades and a school who is corralling the lowest achieving rather than nurturing the top.

What you do is your choice. But you are able to make that choice by virtue that you are wealthy enough to give your dc a better standard of education than most other people. It is an unfair advantage at a societal level, but one that you are of course free to make the most of. You earn your money, you're entitled to spend it however you like. But I'd much prefer an education system that places everyone on a level playing field regardless of wealth tbh. The rest of us are also doing the best we can for our children, but our choices are more limited, which does feel quite unfair. I don't expect you to make a different choice, and I wouldn't call you a cheat. But it does really piss me off that we have a two tier education system that provides a distinct advantage, throughout life, to those able to afford it.

MIL clearly has a chip on her shoulder and a poor range of vocabulary. Whilst your SIL may envy your financial ability to provide private education she shouldn't begrudge your wanting the best for your child. Having said that sometimes the best choice is state sector - many variables at play here.

We're planning to send DDs to private school for the secondary years. DH wasn't that bothered until we went t have a look round. After that he's prepared to sign his soul over. Not for the academic side, though that's a consideration, but for all of the extra-curricular stuff that's going on. I'm keen as much of the homework will be done there and not an argument I'll have. You can't put a price on that

He works in an industry that will give a discount, and we can afford the day fees if we both work full time and eat beans on toast forever. There's also bursaries linked to his work which we hope to be able to access for the purposes of buying baked beans with sausages in on a Friday night.

But this is a thread about MIL and her approval.

My PIL do not approve. Because each of their children was given a label and is expected to remain within it. DH was the non-academic, not-practical, scapegoat child. The fact he's the only one with a degree and in a full-on career causes them much wailing and bitching, much of it towards me for giving him support ideas above his station in life. Of their grandchildren the eldest boy is the clever one, the second is the arty one, and the third... well it's lucky she's pretty right?

I'm sure mine have labels too, but fuck that.

Is this what your MIL is like? That there's golden children and favourites and then those who should stay in their boxes. Not through any logical algorithm but more through likes and opinions.

There are lots of ways to buy or build advantage for your children. Most people want to do the best they can whatever their income level. Some people will be able to provide better opportunities for a variety of reasons. I’m sure your Mil thinks you’ve been cheating at other things too. I realised while on mat leave with my first that she already had a huge advantage over many children. That in many ways she wouldn’t have to work as hard to achieve certain things as other children from less stable or affluent families.

I was in a bit of a yummy mummy bubble where everyone did rhyme time and baby swimming and read to their babies daily. I had many conversations about school catchments and admissions (ie if there were hoops to jump through, this cohort of parents wanted to know early). Everyone around me seemed to own their own home with a garden and had professional careers. When you are surrounded by that you start to assume it is the norm. Those children by luck will have had huge amount of advantage and be totally unaware of it. Some kids with a poor start to life will never catch-up. I’ve seen people say they can predict gcse results based on attainment age 3. I don’t know how true that is but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Agree to disagree and don't talk about it - obviously too contentious - like religion and politics! Will it irk you if she helps SIL and her DC out financially to your DC's detriment to even up her perceived unfairness?

My MIL does this to her 3 DC and it has damaged sibling relationships. Her eldest DC feels punished for doing relatively well in their lives and her youngest DC feels entitled to a similar lifestyle without working for it themselves. Cue huge amounts of resentment which simmers in the background and explodes at family gatherings. It's sad and everyone sees each other less and less.

Going back to the BBC article someone posted, the shocking figures of only 7% of population privately educated yet dominating top jobs be it law banking or drama.

I can't understand why if state schools are good and getting the majority of the population a good eduction?

Rayne, in London it is more like 20% at private school and I think for A levels across the whole of England it is more like 20% at private schools plenty of which are selective whereas most state schools are not selective so that immediately has an effect. is it not also that parents who want their children to get on are more likely to be those who pay school fees so it is not surprising the 20% from private schools end up with half rather than 20% of the best university places and probably about half rather than 20% of the top jobs.

Mind you women make up over 50% of graduates and yet we only have 20% of top paying jobs so if anything sexism is a much bigger issue and unfairness than anything to do with schooling.

I'm not good with stats but I imagine far more than than 20% of dc in state schools still have totally invested, educated parents. Who want their dc to do well and have support. So I'm still struggling to understand what the disparity is.

Was it the same before uni fees as that's the only reason for any real divide I can think of.

I think private schooling is unfair to some degree so I can sort of see her point. They tend (generalising) to have better extra curricular activities, more trips, less rigid options, smaller class sizes, involved parents, less disruption (as schools often won’t take children with learning difficulties / behavioural issues). There’s also a “connections” element which can be useful.

In an ideal world I think all children should get the same education and opportunities.

However I don’t live in such a world and I care more about my child than my ideals and so since we’re lucky enough (with parental help) to be a able to afford it my dds go to private school. I sometimes feel a bit guilty about it.

Just as long all children have access to decent quality education, then private schooling is not more unfair than wealthier people living in bigger and better houses.
The alternative would be communism where everyone earns the same and has access to the same food/clothes/houses.

She’s jealous and mad

Where's that stealth boasts thread gone again...?

If the state sector was able to provide the same as the independent sector, my sons would be state educated. Until that time, I will continue to buy them an advantage and pay the school fees. Would I like everyone to have access to the same? Absolutely, I would. But I am not going to move my kids to the state sector out of some sort of misplaced loyalty to children other than my own. And if that is cheating, so be it, there are worse things I could be accused of.

For crying out loud. I think of it in terms of when she had young kids did she tell all the other parents they couldn't take their kids to Disney because she couldn't afford to do the same and it wouldn't be fair to her kids?

I'm sure you're not rubbing SIL's nose in the fact that your children are in private school. As to the other things I think it's important that children be given enrichment activities.

There will always be children who have more and children who have less. Is a child in Scouting "cheating" because they may have more experiences in certain areas? Is a child in sport "cheating" at PE?

I think MIL is WAY overstepping her bounds and being very unreasonable.