To have immediately removed DS2 from my parents house and found an alternative place to live?

[Strawbroke]

Currently living with my parents as my house isn't ready. It has been hard going but okay up until today. Ongoing issues with my dad turning the wifi off at 8 or 9pm but we have adhered to his rules.So I don't dripfeed I'll give you the build up to us having to leave.

This morning DS2 (age 10) really kicked off as he was going to holiday club. He has huge anxiety generally but especially about transitions, so is difficult. He got dressed and undressed 3 times. Anger. Crying. In the kitchen getting breakfast he elbowed me. I immediately took his phone off him and told him he couldn't take it to holiday club. And put it away. Said he could have the phone back tonight if I got an apology. My mum witnessed this. I went to work. 3dcs went off to respective childcare. In the car DS2 was upset, said he was very sorry. We talked about anger and how unacceptable it was to elbow me and I said we would come up with a way to address him dealing with his emotions. I know my son and if you come on really strong (shouting, react in anger etc, he escalates as his anxiety means he can't regulate his emotions).

On our return after work/holiday club my dad was sat on his laptop. I got the DC's a snack,gave DS2 his phone to Snapchat his dad upstairs but ensured he wasn't going on it. My dad went upstairs and proceeded to scream in DS2's face that under his roof he doesn't hit women etc. I could hear DD (age 7) trying to frantically calm her Grandad down. I was about to go up, he came down and started shouting at me saying he wouldn't have DS2 hitting me under his roof. I calmly (but was upset by this point) tried to say I had dealt with his behaviour and it wasn't his place at which point he said I don't follow things that though as I had returned DS2 his phone. At that point I told the children to put in their shoes as I wanted to leave and calm the situation. This is when it got to crisis point. My dad started shouting that he wasn't happy that the DC's go to their dads. The DC's dad is a very violent man. One day it will bite me in the arse and he will be violent towards the DC's. At this point only DS2 was in the house, the other DC's were heading to the car. DS2 heard everything. The DCs do not know I left exH due to violence (he broke my ribs and jaw). I have protected them for 4 years fronthus as they are children and I have assessed the risk to the DC's (I'm a social worker) and he gad never harmed them at all. I want my DC's to have a relationship with their father. What he did to me was separate to that.

I am FURIOUS with my dad. DS2 is so quiet. I have found somewhere else to stay. AIBU to feel like my dad had no right whatsoever to say this in front of DS2? After all the drama I'm wobbling now I've calmed down. My parents will paint this as my fault. I'm just trying establish if they are right? Thanks. Sorry it's so long. Feel a mess!

(Sorry for all the typos, I'm exhausted )

No. This is not your fault, you have done nothing wrong. I think you're right to move out if you can.

Your dad has a right to say what behaviour he will and won't tolerate in his house but he should have spoken to you about it. Is it possible that he's very defensive of you? And having seen you come out of a violent relationship is terrified that that is how your ds is going to turn out?

No he shouldn't have spoken out of turn but chances are your dcs either knew or would find out soon.

Leaving seems a bit extreme. Couldn't you have talked this through and resolved the situation? Then again screaming in someone's face is no less abusive than hitting them. Having been in an abusive relationship myself I can't stand hearing raised voices. Gives me a panic attack. So I can understand you walking out.

It's a tough one. Big hugs cos that's a crappy day.

You neither yell T women nor scream at children. Your dad being the adult in those scenarios and still bent on indulging in the emotional outburst, so yanbu to remove yourself and your children to a calmer environment where you're better able to model appropriate, measured, responses to challenges to him.

YANBU. It was absolutely not your dad's place to bring all that up in front of your son. I would be appalled if my kids heard the unvarnished truth of the less pleasant side of their dad.

A pols for lousy grammar. Time for zzz.

He didn’t deal with it well. But I’d bet you a pound to a pinch of pigshit he’s bloody terrified your son is going to turn out like his dad. He’s trying to scare him out of it.

Thank you flying I keep thinking that their response is that I'm too soft with DS2 and my dad's response is justified. But, I really feel (and said to my dad) that they project a lot of their anger onto DS2 as he is really like his dad. My dad is furious about the way XH treated me but takes that anger out on me and DS2 and I couldn't bear watching it.

It sounds like your dad is upset about what happened to you. Seeing your DS be violent towards you, maybe he thought that your DS is growing up to be like his dad.

Your dad had no right to get involved in the problem over the elbow/phone in the first place. It was between you and DD and you had dealt with it. Your df sounds rather controlling tbh. I can understand that df isn't hàppy that the DC go to their dad's. He's probably nervous for them. He said it in the heat of the moment about your Ex. But he shouldn't have said it if you hadn't already told them, and he knew this. (Tbh, I would have told them!) I'm glad you decided to leave, and surprised you found somewhere to go so quickly.Good luck.

But his fear that DS2 will end up like his dad is not DS2's fault. That's my dad's issue to resolve. DS2 is a child who has had a lot of shit to deal with. And trying to scare it out of DS2 is not helping anyone. He scared me and he scared DD.

He said I shouldn't defend DS2 but I will defend my DCs over anyone. They need defending.

I think you are right to move out and to de-escalate the situation by doing so. Your Dad has very clearly overstepped the bounds and is wrong in what he did - there is no doubt there and he needs to not be with your DC until he sees that.

However, what strikes me on reading your post is that your Dad is (in the wrong way) trying to protect you here - I suspect he feels guilt at not being able to protect you from what your EX did and is very angry at that and may feel that he has failed you - unfortunately I suspect that is the anger that has come out today at completely the wrong target and he sounds like he is trying to ‘make amends’ by trying to ensure (in a very misguided way) that this violence against women doesn’t continue to the next generation.

I think this is likely to be much more complicated that just an overbearing grandparent and whilst you have acted correctly for the sake of your D.C. it may be worth considering why your Dad did that and how he must have felt to have you injured by you EX and not be able to protect you.

No you’re right. It wasn’t right, what happened and he shouldn’t be taking anything out on your boy. That’s wrong.

Just trying to offer some insight into what your Dad might be thinking.

In terms of your DC not knowing why you left your Ex - you must have had your reasons for not telling them. I personally believe that children do have the right to an age-appropriate version of the truth and should have already been told this. I think you are going to have to address this now with them by giving them a basic explanation as once the information is out, then the worse thing to do is try and cover it up or hide it again. They need to talk about and be able to ask you questions.

However, all of that can be dealt with tomorrow.

Your job right now, is to get ready for bed and try and get some sleep. Things will be calmer in the morning and with some sleep and food tomorrow you will be able to think a bit more clearly and work out a plan of where to go from here. So, try and get some sleep tonight if you can please!

The way your dad went about it was wrong. However I agree that I don't think your DC should see their dad. And I also see how your dad was acting out of fear. Of course he's going to be very emotional when it comes to your ex husband and what he did to you. You should expect an emotional response when he sees what he deems to be your son copying his father's behaviour. He's scared. I think leaving was the right thing to do. There was no calming that situation down, but you need to talk to your dad and try to reassure him that you know he's scared about the influence your ex has on your son but that your son isn't turning into his father.

I am so sorry - you poor thing. No wonder your’re shaken. Well done for keeping it together enough to sort out your dc and find somewhere else to go.

No, they aren’t right. Your children are young and have the right to a childhood unburdened by adult crap. It sounds like you’ve thought hard about the realities of their relationship with their father and would change things if needed, so I assume that for now their relationship is good. Laying on guilt and fear and confusion over their father’s actions is absolutely not the way to handle it. Reassure dc that he is safe and loved and nothing has changed and that his grandfather was absolutely in the wrong for speaking to him like that, and hopefully it will cushion the revelations a bit for him and remind him you are totally on his side.

In the longer term - think about the fact that you automatically say that your “d”p’s will try to paint this as your fault. No loving equal relationship has that dynamic. Your father sounds at best a bully, and at worst deliberately trying to sabotage your, and your dc’s, mental well being by undermining both your choices and relationships. I’m so sorry that the one who suffered the most for this is your ds. I hope you all have a happier time from now on.

Your dad went up stairs and screamed in the face of a 10 year old - you are a social worker. Read back your post and you tell us if YABU.
Yelling like that is abuse right?
Younger children witnessed the situation and tried to calm / protect your son.
They then witnessed you being abused and your authority undermined.
What would you tell a client or a friend in that situation?
You are important, your relationship with your children is important. You don’t need me to tell you that you did the right thing.

Imagine if your son was physically abused by a future wife... Just put yourself in that situation (in your head, obviously) and see how you think you'd react. There's a technique, I think it's called The Empty Chair, where you have two chairs opposite each other and you sit in one pretending to be your dad. Speak as though you are him and talk about your feelings as him, e.g. "I didn't like seeing - - - happen because - - -" and then go to the other chair to be you and respond how you would to him saying that. It may feel silly, but it gets you to consider both sides.

Your Dad sounds controlling and aggressive - it’s no wonder you went on to have a relationship with a violent man. He was out of line today, totally. You’re better off living elsewhere and keeping contact with him low.

I don’t think it’s terrible that your kids know how their Dad behaved & or why you left, but that’s YOUR decision to make about what they’re told, no one elses.

Yanbu. Really glad you were able to find somewhere else. You made the right decision.

It concerns me that you say you are a social worker but say the children didn't know your ex was abusive, imply it won't have had an impact and allow unsupervised contact, essentially using a lot of the same denial and minimisation as a perpetrator regarding the impact of domestic abuse on children, do you think they were asleep? Didn't see? Didn't pick up on the charged atmosphere and your risk avoidant behaviour with their father?. If nothing else how can you protect yourself doing hand over etc, and how do you know he isn't causing emotional harm by saying things about you in their presence? Your father was out of line, but please reconsider your decisions around the children.

Storm in a teacup - rearrange words as necessary

You do need OP to fight the right battles, This wasn't a biggy and for sure you've upset your parents with all this hoo-hah

I hope they are not too upset and please go round with flowers and maybe a nice blend of tea.

Why would you want your kids to have a relationship with a man who broke your jaw? Do you think he has a lot to teach them about growing up to be a decent human being?

I'm not surprised your kid is anxious and lashing out. I'm not surprised your Dad is anxious and lashing out. Seems to me the only person sitting pretty here is your piece of shit ex, with everyone else falling out and bending over backwards to ensure he sees his kids and pretend to them he is some sort of nice guy.

Sorry, I'm probably projecting. I'm in much the same position with my sister and her violent scumbag ex. Why she lets him within 100 miles of her messed up, impressionable boys, I'll never know.

Your father's screwed logic towards his reaction to your son's "violence" (I don't think your son was violent) towards you will be that he failed to protect you against your ex, and he was making sure he didn't fail you against your son.

He has his own issues over what happened to you and is projecting that on your son. Completely misplaced.

He would be lucky if he saw my children again!

I'm amazed you're having to ask this if you're a social worker????