To have immediately removed DS2 from my parents house and found an alternative place to live?

[Strawbroke]

Currently living with my parents as my house isn't ready. It has been hard going but okay up until today. Ongoing issues with my dad turning the wifi off at 8 or 9pm but we have adhered to his rules.So I don't dripfeed I'll give you the build up to us having to leave.

This morning DS2 (age 10) really kicked off as he was going to holiday club. He has huge anxiety generally but especially about transitions, so is difficult. He got dressed and undressed 3 times. Anger. Crying. In the kitchen getting breakfast he elbowed me. I immediately took his phone off him and told him he couldn't take it to holiday club. And put it away. Said he could have the phone back tonight if I got an apology. My mum witnessed this. I went to work. 3dcs went off to respective childcare. In the car DS2 was upset, said he was very sorry. We talked about anger and how unacceptable it was to elbow me and I said we would come up with a way to address him dealing with his emotions. I know my son and if you come on really strong (shouting, react in anger etc, he escalates as his anxiety means he can't regulate his emotions).

On our return after work/holiday club my dad was sat on his laptop. I got the DC's a snack,gave DS2 his phone to Snapchat his dad upstairs but ensured he wasn't going on it. My dad went upstairs and proceeded to scream in DS2's face that under his roof he doesn't hit women etc. I could hear DD (age 7) trying to frantically calm her Grandad down. I was about to go up, he came down and started shouting at me saying he wouldn't have DS2 hitting me under his roof. I calmly (but was upset by this point) tried to say I had dealt with his behaviour and it wasn't his place at which point he said I don't follow things that though as I had returned DS2 his phone. At that point I told the children to put in their shoes as I wanted to leave and calm the situation. This is when it got to crisis point. My dad started shouting that he wasn't happy that the DC's go to their dads. The DC's dad is a very violent man. One day it will bite me in the arse and he will be violent towards the DC's. At this point only DS2 was in the house, the other DC's were heading to the car. DS2 heard everything. The DCs do not know I left exH due to violence (he broke my ribs and jaw). I have protected them for 4 years fronthus as they are children and I have assessed the risk to the DC's (I'm a social worker) and he gad never harmed them at all. I want my DC's to have a relationship with their father. What he did to me was separate to that.

I am FURIOUS with my dad. DS2 is so quiet. I have found somewhere else to stay. AIBU to feel like my dad had no right whatsoever to say this in front of DS2? After all the drama I'm wobbling now I've calmed down. My parents will paint this as my fault. I'm just trying establish if they are right? Thanks. Sorry it's so long. Feel a mess!

Reading through the thread, I was thinking about what kind of upbringing you may have had, which allowed you to accept being with a violent man for a protracted period. It really doesn’t surprise me that your father was a tyrant. I am so sorry your parents didn’t protect you from the sexual abuse.

I fully understand why you left yesterday. It seems to me that whenever you turn you are surrounded by abusers. Idk about your mum but she colluded with abusers and as she played a role in your abuse you can’t rely on her either.

Much as I would be shaken that your father told your dcs about their father, they do need to know what happened to you in a child appropriate way and to know the full extent of the abuse by the time they reach adulthood. I have a 10 yo. It is definitely the right time to explain to your ds his father used to hit you and had to go to hospital. That’s why you had to leave. Your dd is perhaps old enough to hear that sort of explanation too.

Where are you staying right now? Can you stay there longer term or get housed? Imo your dcs are more likely to turn abusive or accept abuse by continuing to live under your parents roof.

I think your son deserves to know the truth about his father. Has ExH undergone any anger management therapy etc, is he a changed man? (if indeed people can change). Did he serve time for the abuse,?
Ideally he would also address this, acknowledge he did some very bad things in the past, and that it is never acceptable to behave that way towards anyone.

I actually think he's right. He's 10 not 5. He is going to turn out just like his dad if you continue to condone it. Frankly I'd have tanned the arse of any 10 year old that dared raise a hand to me. He isn't a little child, he's nearly in secondary school fgs.

Tbh I get it. While not a popular view I’m sure, a huge problem today with men’s violence is other men not giving the clear message to them that it’s unacceptable. Women going on about it is going to achieve zip. Mothers giving talks to sons about it is going to achieve zip. Men who are strong role models giving a clear message to other men that such behaviour is abhorrent and won’t be tolerated works.

One of mine with ASD/ADHD/GAD (anxiety disorder) once lost their rag and either hit me or shoved me when they were a tween. DH saw this occur and saying hell rained down doesn’t do it justice. Certainly wasn’t a take their phone away and let’s have a little chat about it moment. A VERY clear messsge that any form of violence against women will not be tolerated was given. Very effective. If more men did this with other men and boys as they are growing up we would be a lot better off in society. My child, due to their mental health problems, had/has problems with impulse control and losing their temper easily but a lot of work was done in formative years reinforcing that’s not a free pass so as a young adult they know there are very clear boundaries in this regard. I’m guessing that’s what your DF was aiming for?

I think you are right to move out. Having you all there can't have been easy for your parents either.
But I hope that you mend bridges with them immediately. Don't let things fester. Your parents have been there for you and given support. It might not always be in a way you wanted, but overall their intentions were good and they come at things from a different perspective.
Sounds like they were trying to set boundaries for the DC with clear house rules, such as no wifi after 8pm etc.
You should all move on from this as a family. Do something good for your parents tomorrow to show that you appreciate them. Let your children know that you respect and appreciate their grandparents. Seeing you battle with them won't do the DC any favours.

Shumpalumpa
That post really shocked me too. Then I saw the username. Nothing surprises me with that poster. Idk if they live in the 18th century or if they enjoy abusing the op.

Your dad sounds like an absolutely terrified parent who couldn't think clearly enough to handle it without his feelings taking over. He could have done it much better but it is important to acknowledge and respect the feelings of everyone in this situation, adult or child.

It has happened now and there is little to be gained from overanalysing it. Take your dad out for a coffee in a neutral environment and have an open, calm chat about how to move forward?

Yes your Dad was wrong but by not being honest with your dc sooner a whole new page has opened up to deal with. You say that other agencies have been involved in assessing risk and the dc spoke with domestic violence professionals , they must have had some inkling things were wrong. I don't think hiding it from your dc will have helped and at some level encouraged them to not be open in communication. The level of violence you experienced is severe and I am surprised didn't result in a custodial sentence for your ex.

Absolutely no way your dad should have shouted at your or your DS.
However....having got out of a violent relationship when my kids were 5 and 8, you think you have protected your kids, but they still KNOW. My DD knew quite well what went on. I didn't find out that until years later.
My daughters do NOT see my violent exH. With his attitude to women, I am extremely glad. By the way, his dad was also violent...
Your dad was in the wrong for shouting as he did but he was trying to protect you.
I think you need to have a calm talk with him.

I second that your DS needs some outside counseling. I think you are too close to the situation and he needs to be able to talk to someone not involved.

There’s lots here OP. Your father acted appallingly but his words have truths in them.

I think you made the wrong decision re contact with their father - you’re unable to be objective as a social worker as you’re involved. No way would any violent man have unsupervised contact with my dcs. No way.

Your ds needs help as you’re getting but don’t forget the other dcs too. They may look fine but doesn’t mean they are.

I hope this doesn't sound flippant or critical but I don't think you should have moved in with your DPs in the first place as it's inevitable that tension will arise in this situation, too much change and disruption for everyone involved. Good that you have found somewhere else and I hope things settle down for you all.

Christ. I never expect AIBU to be the best place for relationship advice but some of these replies have shocked me.

So many people excusing the OP’s father’s behaviour. So many people telling her to reconcile with parents who abused her.

I have had professional help in assessing risk to my DC's

You shouldn’t have been involved at all??

My mum had two violent relationships. I was in the house when one guy broke her leg and beat her to shit. Never touched me. I didn’t see it but I heard and saw the results.

How can you know your ds didn’t make the guess who did it to you.

dottycat is right. It does seem as if it must have confused your children terribly to have had involvement from professionals but not to have had a clear and honest account of things from you. It does read as little bit as if you've been trying to carry on appeasing your ex even after you split. And I am guessing the current emphasis on children's right to a relationship with their father (which in most normal circumstances I don't doubt is the right thing) will have colluded with you in this.

That's not to say your father was right in what he did. He clearly has trouble managing and communicating his emotions appropriately and, as a PP said, tend towards the authoritarian 'might is right' school of parenting, with you as well as with your dc. But I have to agree with TinklyLittleLaugh that it seems a bit odd that you immediately leave his house after one incident considering the situation with your ex (responding almost as you perhaps wish you had done with your ex?), and especially that what prompted you leaving was not the shouting alone but the fact that your father told ds2 the 'secret' about your ex.

So many people excusing the OP’s father’s behaviour. So many people telling her to reconcile with parents who abused her

I agree. But the responses are wrapped up in the decisions also made re the dcs.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Thanks, I didn't realise @thesearepearls has form for these kind of comments.

Is your dad normally calm and a good gf to your dcs? If so, I guess seeing dc elbow you just triggered the concern he has for you regarding your violent ex.

However, it was handled badly. He definitely shouldn't Have shouted at the dc, which was probably scary for them.

He also shouldnb’t be shouting at you, and accidently reveal the truth behind your split.

@ShumpaLumpa
Idk about these kinds of comments but they were on a bed wetting thread yesterday. Their comments about the children and to other posters were outrageous. Perhaps my observation was tempered by that as I don’t know the poster very well beyond that.

Interesting that your Dad felt the best way to stand up for the rights of a woman under his roof was to completely undermine you to your son. And stage a full on macho ‘under my roof’ performance trying to yell your son (and you) into submission.

You are arguing with your family, regarding your ex tbh.
You needed them onside.
they put you up.
Your Dad screamed in your dc face?

dont bite the hand that feeds you op
but you have now moved out and the situation is one that you need to move on from

Your dad didn't handle it at all well, and he had no place to shout at your DS. But I can empathise with him, too. It's horrible to know that a loved one has suffered DV and that it went on right under your nose and you had no idea. When my DSis told me that her XH had been violent to her, not long after they had split up, the anger I felt against him was intense, but at that stage she was still defending him and didn't want me to bad mouth him.

So I can understand why your dad reacted the way he did; anger can build up when you're keeping it inside you in order to support your loved one, and there is a danger that it will erupt inappropriately. Not that this justifies his response, we're all responsible for controlling our emotions. If he can't, and doesn't realise that he was out of order, then you're absolutely right to move out.

I'm so sorry you're going through all this.

Her father is and was abusive too. She did not bite a feeding hand, she slapped away pinching one.

I think your parenting is really good OP. You are using great techniques. You not only found the strength to leave your abusive ex, you left your parents house to protect your DC.

I have to agree I wouldn’t allow unsupervised access to DC with your ex but apart from that you sound like a bloody good mum and I am so impressed by you.
Your DS behaviour needs addressed but he’s clearly not a bad kid, he just needs support and maybe a diagnosis for appropriate treatment.

Well done and big hugs x

What EmiliaAirheart said, 100%.