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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have immediately removed DS2 from my parents house and found an alternative place to live?

216 replies

Strawbroke · 18/08/2018 00:13

Currently living with my parents as my house isn't ready. It has been hard going but okay up until today. Ongoing issues with my dad turning the wifi off at 8 or 9pm but we have adhered to his rules.So I don't dripfeed I'll give you the build up to us having to leave.

This morning DS2 (age 10) really kicked off as he was going to holiday club. He has huge anxiety generally but especially about transitions, so is difficult. He got dressed and undressed 3 times. Anger. Crying. In the kitchen getting breakfast he elbowed me. I immediately took his phone off him and told him he couldn't take it to holiday club. And put it away. Said he could have the phone back tonight if I got an apology. My mum witnessed this. I went to work. 3dcs went off to respective childcare. In the car DS2 was upset, said he was very sorry. We talked about anger and how unacceptable it was to elbow me and I said we would come up with a way to address him dealing with his emotions. I know my son and if you come on really strong (shouting, react in anger etc, he escalates as his anxiety means he can't regulate his emotions).

On our return after work/holiday club my dad was sat on his laptop. I got the DC's a snack,gave DS2 his phone to Snapchat his dad upstairs but ensured he wasn't going on it. My dad went upstairs and proceeded to scream in DS2's face that under his roof he doesn't hit women etc. I could hear DD (age 7) trying to frantically calm her Grandad down. I was about to go up, he came down and started shouting at me saying he wouldn't have DS2 hitting me under his roof. I calmly (but was upset by this point) tried to say I had dealt with his behaviour and it wasn't his place at which point he said I don't follow things that though as I had returned DS2 his phone. At that point I told the children to put in their shoes as I wanted to leave and calm the situation. This is when it got to crisis point. My dad started shouting that he wasn't happy that the DC's go to their dads. The DC's dad is a very violent man. One day it will bite me in the arse and he will be violent towards the DC's. At this point only DS2 was in the house, the other DC's were heading to the car. DS2 heard everything. The DCs do not know I left exH due to violence (he broke my ribs and jaw). I have protected them for 4 years fronthus as they are children and I have assessed the risk to the DC's (I'm a social worker) and he gad never harmed them at all. I want my DC's to have a relationship with their father. What he did to me was separate to that.

I am FURIOUS with my dad. DS2 is so quiet. I have found somewhere else to stay. AIBU to feel like my dad had no right whatsoever to say this in front of DS2? After all the drama I'm wobbling now I've calmed down. My parents will paint this as my fault. I'm just trying establish if they are right? Thanks. Sorry it's so long. Feel a mess!

OP posts:
Lookatyourwatchnow · 18/08/2018 09:03

Sorry OP but there are quite a few worries glaring out from your post. Your son elbowed you and was generally misbehaving. He didn't really have any consequences for that. You gave him his phone back to use snapchat as soon as he came home! As an aside, not appropriate that your TEN year old has a phone and especially Snapchat.

You need to be firmer with your DC as it sounds like you DS is running rings round you and being precious with them isn't going to do them any favours when they're older.

RoboticSealpup · 18/08/2018 09:04

Your father dealt with this badly but I think he should be forgiven for that. He saw his daughter being abused and he wants to protect you and your children. I think you should talk to him from a place of compassion.

TheDogAteMyPants · 18/08/2018 09:06

I agree with those who’ve said your dad’s behaviour is probably pent up worry, but that in no way excuses his behaviour. Shouting in a child’s face is just another form of abusive behaviour. Can he not see that his behaviours are on the same spectrum as your DC’s dad’s?
It’s awful that in his rage he revealed your ex’s violence, it’s not the way they should have found out. There’s no excuse for that. The genie’s our the bottle now though. Your poor kids and poor you. Removing them from the situation with your parents is absolutely right. Sounds like you have all had enough to deal with - you need support and love, not confrontation. Or at the very least, a bit of peace and quiet.
Your dad should be building bridges with you. Not the other way round. Stay strong OP. Please put looking after yourself and your kids first. xx

RoboticSealpup · 18/08/2018 09:06

To clarify, I don't mean that your DS was abusing you, I mean that you were very severely abused by your ex.

On a different note, someone who broke your jaw is dangerous and doesn't deserve to see his children. I don't understand your reasoning there at all.

hungryhippo90 · 18/08/2018 09:07

Sorry just read your updates! I now have answers to my question!

Just reiterating, you did the right thing. Do speak to your dad though. You can safeguard the children, you’ll know how much of a relationship is best for them in regards to your dad.

Missingstreetlife · 18/08/2018 09:09

Your dad is out of order, was he always so? I wonder if this has affected your boundaries?
You must know you can't social work your own family. A seperate independent risk assessment would be good to assess the danger to your kids from their father.
Time to move, obvs becoming too fraught at your parents'.

youarenotkiddingme · 18/08/2018 09:10

Not a good situation and I think some space between you all is probably good.

Your dad may have handled it badly by shouting but try and look at it from his POV.

He watched his DD suffer after being beaten badly by a man, the father of his grandchildren, and beaten so badly she had broken ribs and jaw.

What he saw was his grandson showing behaviours that indicate he could do the same thing. And that violent behaviour was directed, again, towards his DD.

I'd say your priority here is getting to the route cause of your ds anxiety and violent behaviour as a result.
Are you absolutely sure nothing is happening at his dads that's causing this?

RoboticSealpup · 18/08/2018 09:11

Sorry, OP (if you're still here) I didn't RTFT. There's quite a lot of relevant information left out of the OP. I hope you're OK.

Missingstreetlife · 18/08/2018 09:14

Sorry, seen you have had assessment. Good luck op,

scaryteacher · 18/08/2018 09:14

It seems that both the OP and her Dad are both trying to protect their own kids from what I've read, and I have rtft.

For those who are aghast at the OP being yelled at and hit when she was a child, parenting changes, as the mores of a society changes. I don't know any of my friends of my age (early 50s), who weren't yelled at, or got slippered, or smacked, when we were kids. It's abusive by today's standards, but wasn't then.

youarenot · 18/08/2018 09:15

You've already received advice, you had a place here to vent/rant out your worries and you have removed yourself from the situation that you felt was unsafe for you & your children (emotionally... I would agree with you).

You are now in a safe place, temp in a caravan but somewhere safe where you can help your children overcome everything that has happened in their lives - especially over the last 24 hours with your DS2.

You already know that you made the correct decision, you are doing what you think is best for your children (both with their father and yours) and you sound like you know you need to get the answers for DS2 in regards to his behaviours, why he does it and how he can self regulate them. Good luck in getting these answers, once you do it will help both of you, I promise.

I would like to say, good luck with your house move. I hope the house is ready for you all to move in to and start your new lives together happily soon.

Willow2017 · 18/08/2018 09:17

Your father dealt with this badly but I think he should be forgiven for that. He saw his daughter being abused and he wants to protect you and your children. I think you should talk to him from a place of compassion.

This is a man.who hit hus daughter as a child so she walked on eggshells to keep the peace and who ignored her being sexually abused!!
Yeah such a lovely caring man.
He is used to bullying kids he isnt doing anything out of 'caring'. Its just his power trip.

NoFucksImAQueen · 18/08/2018 09:25

why is everybody going on about the phone? op said he could ha e it back tonight if he apologised and he did in the car so she hardly didn't follow through, she took it off him all day.
your dad behaved appallingly. screaming about not hitting women while terrifying 2 kids and shouting at their mum... who he used to hit. what a hypocrite

WidowTwonky · 18/08/2018 09:25

You totally did the correct thing OP

Nanny0gg · 18/08/2018 09:29

This is in no way directed at the OP who I think is doing all she can under difficult circumstances.

But why do 'agencies' think it is best for children to be in contact with horrifically violent/abusive parents even if the abuse wasn't directed at them?

You can't fully know what happens when they're with that parent. And if the parent is an abusive bully why are they miraculously a nice person who puts their children first when they look after them? They didn't before.

DontDribbleOnTheCarpet · 18/08/2018 09:29

I'm sorry that you have to struggle like this, OP. You did the right thing and I'm sure you sometimes wish that someone had done the same for you when you were a child.

MattBerrysHair · 18/08/2018 09:31

There is such a lot to address but I think you've done the right thing. Your df was way out of line, whether it came from a place of worry and caring or from a need to control. Your ds will need help to process everything so get in touch with all the relevant supporting bodies ASAP. Also, support for yourself.

AnoukSpirit · 18/08/2018 09:31

@strawbroke I do think you did the right thing to intervene and defend your son from your father's attack (and that is what it was). I can only imagine how distressing it must have been for your son, but I would hope that seeing you intervene to defend him and counteracting what his grandfather had yelled at him will have a significant positive impact. Your actions speak loudly.

I don't know if you'll read this, which would be understandable after some of the comments you've had. I'll post anyway in case you do or it helps someone else reading.

I completely get why you want to protect your children from the knowledge of what your ex did to you, but it also jumped out to me that the questions they'd asked you about him were observations of abusive behaviour that they had noticed and had picked up on and had remembered and probably had worried about. You know this, but abuse is about far more than the violence to which it may or may not eventually escalate. They witnessed the rest of it.

You went through MARAC and all the rest, but did you ever get the chance to do the Freedom Programme? (Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk) I ask because it covers a) how children are affected by abuse even when we think we've managed to hide it from them, b) how they heal in the aftermath and can be supported, and c) all the ways abuse manifests before it escalates to violence (so all the other things the children could have heard or seen or experienced even if they never saw the violence).

I think you're right that your son's anxiety is trauma related. Which must be heart wrenching, but it also means an improvement and resolution is absolutely possible. And that is what I would hold onto. The hope.

I'm sure you're aware of this, but children don't have the perspective to understand that their dad was targeting his abuse at you because of his own beliefs, not because of anything they had done. My fear would be that in the absence of you taking charge of the situation and talking about it with them that the only way they've been left with to understand the arguments and shouting they used to hear is that "I'm bad and I made daddy angry". It's such an incredibly common response for children in that situation I'd be more surprised if they hadn't absorbed that idea - so I'm not saying this as criticism or judgement of anything you've done. It's just how children understand the world.

I can't help wondering if one of the greatest things you could do to help your DS2 to recover from this would be to have that tough conversation about what went on and why it went on, and unequivocally tell him that it had absolutely nothing to do with him, he didn't cause it, he didn't influence it, he didn't make it worse, it wasn't his fault for not protecting you, it wasn't his fault for being afraid, it wasn't his fault for anything - and it wasn't his responsibility to stop it etc.

If you start the conversation and lay things out (obviously not in graphic detail, that's not what I mean) and begin by listing the ways it wasn't his fault or his doing etc etc, and why, it may well give him the chance to feel able to ask you about things that are worrying him. He might feel too ashamed to say "it's my fault for hiding under my bed instead of telling daddy to stop, isn't it?" without you first initiating things, but it may well be the kind of thing that's been going through his mind and that he won't otherwise feel able to dare trusting anyone with. (Who would if you're expecting the answer to be "yes, it's your fault".)

I know it's a bit cliched, but I really do think knowledge is power in this situation.

And genuinely, I think you're doing brilliantly to be doing all of this to protect them, help them, defend them, and build a better life for you all. It cannot have been easy, and I have so much respect for you for having gone through all of this and to still be standing.

Imelda03 · 18/08/2018 09:32

I agree with Riv. A number of things happened here that as a social worker you should be concerned about aside from the incident with your DF, including stating that it is you who has assessed the risk of the DC seeing their violent father. I do hope an independent SW helped in assessing this risk. In addition their are concerns as you have recognised re DS using violence when angry which aside from the screaming and anxiety would be enough for me to consider if your ex was impacting his behaviour. Would you consider having your DS assessed by independent SW and have the ex and his home environment checked out before allowing the DC to visit (apologies if you've done this but no indication on your post). Sorry for the long post....... in short your dad was wrong but there are wider issues here that can't be overlooked and despite your DFS reaction I think this is what he was trying to say. Xxx I hope the DC are all OK and your feeling a little less stressed now having read some of the advice.

idonthaveatattoo · 18/08/2018 09:34

It would be a cold day in hell before my kids saw someone who broke my jaw.

Allthatsnot · 18/08/2018 09:35

Imelda03 the OP has stated numerous times it was independently assessed. RTFT.

RandomMess · 18/08/2018 09:41

I hope things are much calmer for you all today.

DS knowing the truth may actually help, the not really knowing why you left his Dad may have caused him some anxiety on its own.

Sounds like you need to stay far away from your Dad too Angry at his awful behaviour!

Thanks
Lollypop701 · 18/08/2018 09:42

Op, everything you have done sounds right. You are always going to get flamed on here for something. Your dad was out of order, probably from fear, being older and that’s how children were treated 30 years ago, not wanting you ds1 to turn out like his df (older people really believe blood runs true, rather than it being a result of upbringing Hmm). You are moving on to a better place, get your ds1 some extra help and assessment. You know where you are going, and there will be wobbles along the way, Onwards and upwards

ShumpaLumpa · 18/08/2018 09:43

@Slartybartfast

Your posts on this thread are quite disturbing. You berate the OP for 'biting the hand that feeds you' when all she did was remove herself and her DC from a situation where her father was screaming at her and her child.

You then make a sly comment about why OP moved in with her parents. OP already said she was waiting to move into her house which wasn't ready.

When OP explains that she was only at her parents for 2 weeks, you tell her 'don't get ratty with me'. What will you do? Shout at her like dad?

There's something so sly and vaguely threatening about your posts, it's quite disturbing. I can only imagine how OP feels being thr recipient of them and I'm not surprised posts like yours are making her want to leave the thread. The mesage from posters sees to be abuse from a male partner is not ok, but abuse from a patriachal figure to his adult daughter and grandson is fine. Frightening.

Elephant14 · 18/08/2018 09:55

OP I think you definitely did the right thing under all the circumstances. What you do from hereon in is your business. Definitely put some space between yourself and your parents.

Its a mess isn't it - reminds me me of my own life and how my parents were, how my hopefully STBXH is, and my worries about how my own (teenage) DCs are going to turn out; I imagine it has resonated with a lot of posters - as someone said previously, its a cycle of abuse. But what chills me is that your are a social worker, and feel that the kids have a right to see their father.

What about their rights NOT to see him? It makes you realise, reading this, why we have all these posts about desperate women being forced to allow contact with violent fathers. So the kids have a right not to be in contact with your own father, as he was an arsehole, and you chose to remove them - quite rightly - you made that choice for them. But you don't feel you can choose to fight to stop contact, or at least without supervision? Even with what I presume is "inside" knowledge to help you.

Is this truly what women are supposed to be doing? Allowing their kids to have relationships with men who punch them in the face? As a social worker then, if you were faced with a woman in the same position, you'd tell her that the kids have a right to a relationship with their father? Yes we know that courts force this contact sometimes, and you have to ask what madness is that. But you seem to be saying its not madness, its the Right Thing.

I think your judgement was entirely correct when you left your parents' house; but its completely shot to hell with regard to your ex.