Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have immediately removed DS2 from my parents house and found an alternative place to live?

216 replies

Strawbroke · 18/08/2018 00:13

Currently living with my parents as my house isn't ready. It has been hard going but okay up until today. Ongoing issues with my dad turning the wifi off at 8 or 9pm but we have adhered to his rules.So I don't dripfeed I'll give you the build up to us having to leave.

This morning DS2 (age 10) really kicked off as he was going to holiday club. He has huge anxiety generally but especially about transitions, so is difficult. He got dressed and undressed 3 times. Anger. Crying. In the kitchen getting breakfast he elbowed me. I immediately took his phone off him and told him he couldn't take it to holiday club. And put it away. Said he could have the phone back tonight if I got an apology. My mum witnessed this. I went to work. 3dcs went off to respective childcare. In the car DS2 was upset, said he was very sorry. We talked about anger and how unacceptable it was to elbow me and I said we would come up with a way to address him dealing with his emotions. I know my son and if you come on really strong (shouting, react in anger etc, he escalates as his anxiety means he can't regulate his emotions).

On our return after work/holiday club my dad was sat on his laptop. I got the DC's a snack,gave DS2 his phone to Snapchat his dad upstairs but ensured he wasn't going on it. My dad went upstairs and proceeded to scream in DS2's face that under his roof he doesn't hit women etc. I could hear DD (age 7) trying to frantically calm her Grandad down. I was about to go up, he came down and started shouting at me saying he wouldn't have DS2 hitting me under his roof. I calmly (but was upset by this point) tried to say I had dealt with his behaviour and it wasn't his place at which point he said I don't follow things that though as I had returned DS2 his phone. At that point I told the children to put in their shoes as I wanted to leave and calm the situation. This is when it got to crisis point. My dad started shouting that he wasn't happy that the DC's go to their dads. The DC's dad is a very violent man. One day it will bite me in the arse and he will be violent towards the DC's. At this point only DS2 was in the house, the other DC's were heading to the car. DS2 heard everything. The DCs do not know I left exH due to violence (he broke my ribs and jaw). I have protected them for 4 years fronthus as they are children and I have assessed the risk to the DC's (I'm a social worker) and he gad never harmed them at all. I want my DC's to have a relationship with their father. What he did to me was separate to that.

I am FURIOUS with my dad. DS2 is so quiet. I have found somewhere else to stay. AIBU to feel like my dad had no right whatsoever to say this in front of DS2? After all the drama I'm wobbling now I've calmed down. My parents will paint this as my fault. I'm just trying establish if they are right? Thanks. Sorry it's so long. Feel a mess!

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 19/08/2018 08:29

You think your ex’s violence is between you and him and not impacted your children and they are unaware Hmm ffs you are a social worker

Of course your father was in the wrong and he was very wrong to react in the way he did but the tension in your house (which living with a violent man is something you have probably got used to) and your parents seeing that you are actually colluding with he idea his violence was only directed at you must be unbearable at times

A man who is violent towards the mother of his children is abusive towards his own children you know this. Ok courts may insist on children seeing their father but you must know the damage that has already been done

Op you have a lot to work through and face and so do your children and it sounds as if your parents have been supportive and have snapped don’t believe for one minute your ex won’t use your children to punish you he has already manipulated you into thinking they are totally safe with him

Strawbroke · 19/08/2018 10:32

Enthusiasm I have never ever said the children haven't been impacted by ex's violence. The youngest two didn't know he had physically hurt me but they knew that he was absuive. I wrote what they asked and knew. I've also said what services assessed and directed me to do. But still I'm getting brow beaten. The final incident that caused me to leave was extremely traumatic for them. All three DC's to this day display elements of trauma. I have had the police, children's social care, an independent domestic abuse device, MARAC and an IDVA involved in mine and my children's lives for a couple of years after. I have had intervention from mental health nurses, psychologists, psychiatrists and support from rape crisis.

I have jumped through every hoop, attended every meeting, asked for every service available to help my DC's and myself. I didn't flee the house on Friday as some way of punishing my dad? I left because my DC's (all 3) were getting stressed and upset and I found getting screamed and pointed at by a really angry man really disorienting and I panicked. I just had to get away. I know it probably wasn't proportionate or empathetic of the way my DF was feeling at that moment but my first thought was to get us all out of there.

I have thought long and hard since starting this thread about next steps. I do need to think about ex and his contact with the children. I would really like all your advice about how to appreciate such this? The courts will not stop contact with him so how can I minimise the influence he has on them? I'd be grateful if you could all share what you think my options are?

Secondly, my son is really distressed. I need to address this and will be asking for a CAMHS referral. Please can you all tell me what a better consequence would have been to him elbowing me? DS2 is very sensitive, doesn't have much as much emotional resilience as his siblings. I put a time limit on phone access as indefinite, really punitive actions inflame him and cause him to spiral into more aggression and anxiety and he starts to say he wants to die. This makes me really get stressed. Please can you tell me what options or alternatives would be better for him?

Since we left my parents house on Friday I have had time to think about how me and the DC's were reacting whilst being there. We aren't used to such an authoritarian stance and we were all very tense and stressed and worried by it. The last 4 years we were surviving and healing and it has been very quiet. This last two days the DC's behaviour has been much calmer and I think it's because I'm much calmer. I was miserable living with my dad as all his rules (there were a lot) were making me very nervous and on edge (I was really worried about spillages and bedtimes and screen time and food as my parents weren't happy about my parenting). This isn't my parents fault, they were using their way on us and I'm grateful they were trying to help. But I know now it was a mistake to try live with them again. Once I have my house, which I will own (yey!) I will work hard on healing myself and my DC's. Flowers especially to Willow who has fought my corner in such a lovely supportive way. I wish I knew you in RL as actually I don't really have anyone but myself to rely on and I'm pretty fucked up Smile

OP posts:
NewUserNameTime · 19/08/2018 10:51

Is changing contact to supervised an option? I find it distressing that the courts think an abusive man should remain in their lives and by extension your's.

You've been through a lot but you sound very strong and clearly love your DC

Strawbroke · 19/08/2018 11:08

They did an assessment of risk to my DC's at the time of the last assault and my case went to MARAC. The outcome was they were not at risk of harm for their dad, even at S17 (child in need, step before child protection). I was told that the children have a right to a relationship with their father by CSC and that there was no need for supervised contact. When the DC's come back from there DS2 is unsettled but it's hard to know if that's the transition back to home or something else. They don't say anything about their Dad really, just that they want to live with him when they get in a strop with me. I don't think he talks to them about me at all, they never say 'Dad said you xxxx' or anything. It's really hard to know what to do as I've no evidence that he's abusing them.

OP posts:
PollyFlinderz · 19/08/2018 11:17

I need to address this and will be asking for a CAMHS referral

I think you're doing the right think.

I put a time limit on phone access as indefinite, really punitive actions inflame him and cause him to spiral into more aggression and anxiety and he starts to say he wants to die. This makes me really get stressed. Please can you tell me what options or alternatives would be better for him?

I have a son who's 27 and severely autistic. He also has Tourettes syndrome, epilepsy that manifests itself if aggressio/violence towards himself and others, as well as additional mental health problems. He's never been to school. On looking at your last comment Im thinking the following -

I put a time limit on phone access as indefinite

Then how will he know when the consequence is going to end? In his mind it could be that its going to go on for a month of Sundays. ITs enough to cause upset to anyone.

really punitive actions inflame him and cause him to spiral into more aggression and anxiety and he starts to say he wants to die

Well of course they'll inflame him. Is there anyone who likes them? But how reacts whilst understandable isn't acceptable because the fact is that if he's still reacting aggressively when he's older you could have a 6 foot giant on the rampage with you on the receiving end of it. And thats if he reacts at home. What about outside?

And saying he wants to die? That could just be a very clever little boy who's manipulating his mum but at the same time it could be a boy with problems not understand whats going on and why he's being punished Do I think he actually wants to die? No I don't. But I do think its the worst thing he can think of so he uses it to articulate his thoughts and feelings.

Do I actually like the use of 'punishment' to correct someones behaviour? No, I absolutely hate it which is why I try to turn it around to praising/rewarding the good/acceptable things and only giving a consequence when there was no other way of handling something and I really did feel on my bones it was warranted and understood by my son (and his siblings)

Is it fair of us to expect certain things of our children NT or otherwise without helping them deal with their feelings? No it isn't, which is why your son needs outside help working out whats going on with his feelings, why they are happening, and how to deal with them?

Would it be possible for you to maybe give a 'punishment' for something like an hour and in that time get him to do something that he can be praised for at the end of it. So if you took his phone you could then say come and help me with such and such and then when the hour is up say, you were a great help, thank you so much, and then give the phone back. ITs a way to foster a feel good factor after a shitty situation but it will also mean his only good feeling isn't associated with getting his phone back. Im aware I may have explained that terribly.

Are there book out there you can read? Yep. But Im sure there's not enough hours in the day already and I really do believe that until you know just whats going on with your boy there's not much point in reading anything. Why read now when it may not be relevent to his particular problems?

If you did however want to read then the Jessica Kingsley publishing company have many many books you could read on how to help your son in the interim with his anger management.

I hope Ive made a half decent job of trying to explain all of this.

Strawbroke · 19/08/2018 11:18

Err, I didn't put a time limit on it and got flamed for it.

OP posts:
PollyFlinderz · 19/08/2018 11:20

They don't say anything about their Dad really, just that they want to live with him when they get in a strop with me

I imagine this is the equivalent of other kids who live full time with both parents saying they're going to run away from home when things arent going their way.

Slartybartfast · 19/08/2018 11:20

you could start a new thread op, in the Relationships section?

Strawbroke · 19/08/2018 11:22

Sorry I mean I DID put a time limit on it and got told it was a rubbish consequence. Trying to establish what alternatives I have?

You are right though polly I do need to understand what is going on with his feelings. I think it's trauma rather than a neurological or development issue though.

OP posts:
PollyFlinderz · 19/08/2018 11:24

Err, I didn't put a time limit on it and got flamed for it

From my point of view it was that he was being punished by not being allowed to have his phone yet you gave him his phone so snapchat with whilst not being able to use the his phone. It was contradictory. It was neither one thing or the other.

Strawbroke · 19/08/2018 11:30

Sorry, I'm not being clear.

He was allowed his phone back when we got back from work. He then used it to snapchat his dad about a medal he'd got at holiday club and then wasn't on his phone because he was doing something else upstairs. My dad was incensed that I gave it back to him. I was trying to work out what an appropriate amount of time should have been as 8 hours was too short was the general consensus on here.

OP posts:
PollyFlinderz · 19/08/2018 11:37

I was trying to work out what an appropriate amount of time should have been as 8 hours was too short was the general consensus on here

Ok. I wasnt looking at it from a time angle at all. I do think though that to take a phone from someone when they were going into a situation where the probably wouldn't have been allowed to have the phone anyway probably wouldn't teach them much. But I understand that taking someones phone can seem like a really good idea at the time.

How would I do it? In short bursts. So I'd have done something like no TV for an hour that evening whilst getting the person to do something else instead that I could praise at the end of it. I can see though that you were in a situation in your parents house where you probably didnt want to rock the boat even before this happened. Its good you've gone to your own place for now.

Willow2017 · 19/08/2018 11:38

Straw
Thank you what a lovely thing to say.
I know what its like with an emotionally challenged child
Myine has often said he wishes he was dead after outbursts because he hates them but they just take him over. Its horrid to see your child like that.

Slunds like the move to the caravan has calmed everyone down.

Have to rush of to work.now but if you need to vent pm.me and i will read later.

MatildaTheCat · 19/08/2018 11:49

OP, have you read The Explosive Child? I believe it is very helpful. There is a summary Here

You’ve had a terrible time and I sincerely wish you well in finding some healing for you all. As well as help for your DS I wonder if family therapy might be helpful to explore the past and to find better ways of coping as a family in the future.

If you haven’t already done so I highly recommend contacting Young Minds who are brilliant.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 19/08/2018 12:25

Sorry op I got stuck on the your ex violence towards you is separate from them you are doing the best you can but can’t manage everyone’s feelings

It isn’t but the law isn’t on your side this idea that a relationship with their father is upheld as being highly important and the risks of the trauma and manipulation is overlooked

The trauma isn’t just from the seperation it will also be from the tension that your ex created the fear you lived in that is playing out now

I am guessing your son really looks up to his father which for your parents is something they find very difficult to understand you are their child and they feel protective towards you along with their grandchildren

Time away and talking openly with your parents but I think your dad’s fear of your ex is one that is honest and understandable (not regarding your ds but his dad) but your hands are tied

Best of luck

GabsAlot · 20/08/2018 14:02

how the courts said it was safe to have unsupervised contact i dont k now
if i found out my dad ever hit my mum or vice versa i would never see them again

so he doesnt hit them-bully for him

New posts on this thread. Refresh page