To have immediately removed DS2 from my parents house and found an alternative place to live?

[Strawbroke]

Currently living with my parents as my house isn't ready. It has been hard going but okay up until today. Ongoing issues with my dad turning the wifi off at 8 or 9pm but we have adhered to his rules.So I don't dripfeed I'll give you the build up to us having to leave.

This morning DS2 (age 10) really kicked off as he was going to holiday club. He has huge anxiety generally but especially about transitions, so is difficult. He got dressed and undressed 3 times. Anger. Crying. In the kitchen getting breakfast he elbowed me. I immediately took his phone off him and told him he couldn't take it to holiday club. And put it away. Said he could have the phone back tonight if I got an apology. My mum witnessed this. I went to work. 3dcs went off to respective childcare. In the car DS2 was upset, said he was very sorry. We talked about anger and how unacceptable it was to elbow me and I said we would come up with a way to address him dealing with his emotions. I know my son and if you come on really strong (shouting, react in anger etc, he escalates as his anxiety means he can't regulate his emotions).

On our return after work/holiday club my dad was sat on his laptop. I got the DC's a snack,gave DS2 his phone to Snapchat his dad upstairs but ensured he wasn't going on it. My dad went upstairs and proceeded to scream in DS2's face that under his roof he doesn't hit women etc. I could hear DD (age 7) trying to frantically calm her Grandad down. I was about to go up, he came down and started shouting at me saying he wouldn't have DS2 hitting me under his roof. I calmly (but was upset by this point) tried to say I had dealt with his behaviour and it wasn't his place at which point he said I don't follow things that though as I had returned DS2 his phone. At that point I told the children to put in their shoes as I wanted to leave and calm the situation. This is when it got to crisis point. My dad started shouting that he wasn't happy that the DC's go to their dads. The DC's dad is a very violent man. One day it will bite me in the arse and he will be violent towards the DC's. At this point only DS2 was in the house, the other DC's were heading to the car. DS2 heard everything. The DCs do not know I left exH due to violence (he broke my ribs and jaw). I have protected them for 4 years fronthus as they are children and I have assessed the risk to the DC's (I'm a social worker) and he gad never harmed them at all. I want my DC's to have a relationship with their father. What he did to me was separate to that.

I am FURIOUS with my dad. DS2 is so quiet. I have found somewhere else to stay. AIBU to feel like my dad had no right whatsoever to say this in front of DS2? After all the drama I'm wobbling now I've calmed down. My parents will paint this as my fault. I'm just trying establish if they are right? Thanks. Sorry it's so long. Feel a mess!

It’s not adhd, it sounds like asd.

I'm pretty sure it's not ASC as his social communication is really good. I understand why you think that and often wondered when he was smaller but as he gets older I think it might be more his mental health which kills me to say it.

Straw, what are you doing about your son? What are you going to do to address the things you’ve mentioned by getting help for him and having SEN ruled out?

And your dad was correct. You didn’t carry on through with your sons punishment. As soon as you gave the phone to him that was it. The punishment was over.

Ah sorry. We cross posted.

Kids pick up on so much so by "protecting" ds you may have some role in the behaviour he's displaying. Did ds see you when you were bruised/injured? He has gaps in his knowledge and it probably does need addressing.

Your df handled it badly but it sounds like he's trying to protect and support you but in a misguided way. With ds' behaviour I'm not sure why he has a phone? We have dc with mental health issues where I work and the first thing we do is to remove access to online devices when they're admitted.

I think you need to sit down and talk with your dad to say how you feel but also listen to how he feels but then move forward. It's hard for all involved.

Hope you can build ds' confidence and his relationship back up with his grandad.

Straw, I think given there’s already support put in place for your boy it wouldn’t be difficult for it to be taken to the next level and have him assessed just to see if ASC can be ruled out.

I'm so glad you defended your children and removed them from that situation, OP. Your dad has no right to associate your son's behaviour with that of his father. Your son is just a child who is learning and making mistakes. He needs to be corrected not labelled.

Going on the information on the post it would appear more likely to be trauma related behaviour rather than any pre existing medical behaviour. However that's going off a tiny snapshot obviously!

But if the above is right it simply reinforces your decision as your approach was clear and firm and your father's was not

The kids should not see their dad if he is violent. Unsupervised
I think you dad was right to an extent - your son shouldn’t be violent without major consequences.
A 10 year old also shouldn’t have a smart phone.

I think it is trauma based. Hence why I've been using specific behaviour techniques (clear, time limited consequences, discussion about drivers and low arousal approaches) to try and manage DS2's behaviour and his anxiety. And why I was so angry with my DF as he isn't helping. He isn't supportive at all.

I am not perfect in parenting, in anyway, and I have asked for and received professional help. But I need the adults around DS2 to act like adults and not let their anger and need for control and power take over.

He adores his dad and the way my dad told him yesterday about the violence has completely sent him into a tailspin.

Have you spoken to your DS yet about what your dad said? Because I think you need to tell him the truth, or a watered down version of the truth as soon as possible.

Given your abusive history with your parents it isnt surprising that you were vulnerable to an abusive husband. Sometimes victims of abuse in childhood become desensitized to tlred flags as an adult, they get minimised.

Reading your posts, it does sound like you've minimised your own pain and what these people have done to you- first for your father's sake (a bully who hit you and had you walking on egg shells), your father and mother (for enabling your father and both for not supporting you through sexual abuse), with your ex (a violent abuser).

It is good you walked from your parents but i would really look back and think if at any earlier times the behaviour of your childhood-walking on eggshells and emotional abuse- but you just didn't recognise it at the time. Did you try counselling at all?

Have you spoken to your son? You need to tell him and the others the truth about their father and that your parents acted that way to you as a child too. He could get angry at his dad and question him, inciting his dad's temper. That's what happened with friend's dd, she got "lipy".

Yes, I have talked to him and told him that it was true but it wasn't his grandads right to tell him or shout it at him. I asked if he had any questions and told him he can always ask me anything at any time.

This is no doubt going to cause a lot of issues with exH.

Straw, I think you handled it really well.

for you and DS2.

Do you think you should warn exH that the DC know?

(I assume you told all of them now, as it's not fair to tell DS to keep it a secret)

I can't believe the minimising of the father's behaviour on this thread. I don't care how scared he was, you do not scream in the face of a child and then go and scream at your daughter.

Why are people excusing and minimising his abusive behaviour?

OP, you absolutely did the right thing. I admire you for your quick thinking and decisiveness. It's exactky what your children needed to see as well. I hope you have somewhere safe and friendly to stay?

Your dad wants to teach DS not to be violent towards women... by screaming at women and children. You were absolutely right to go. Your dad might have had the best of intentions but when you left your DH you broke the pattern in which you stay around angry men and try to calm them down. Now you establish a boundary by walking out. That's awesome. I remember your last thread as well, and I hope you're all in your new house soon and you get to relax and have the WiFi running all the hours of the day and night

@thesearepearls

Storm in a teacup - rearrange words as necessary

You do need OP to fight the right battles, This wasn't a biggy and for sure you've upset your parents with all this hoo-hah

I hope they are not too upset and please go round with flowers and maybe a nice blend of tea.

What absolute bollocks. Go round and with flowers and tea to say sorry to him for leaving due to his screaming?

Are you taking the piss with 'nice blend of tea'? This is someone's life.

Funny that in wanting to protect you from violence your dad has exposed your 7 year old to violence.

Shows how abuse can cycle in families.

FWIW I had a similar temperament to your son when I was a kid- if someone was angry with me I'd fight them until the cows came home, becoming violent and stubborn and ridiculous with frustration. An ounce of understanding and calmness and follow through would have worked wonders with me- you're definitely doing the right thing. All that sort of angry laying down the law shit does is cause a row. I bet if your dad had gone in with a calm "look kid, I hear stuff happened this morning, wanna talk about it/your mum deserves respect and love" kind of attitude the message would have actually been received and the outcome would have been 1000 X better.

Straw, have a look at Developmental Trauma Disorder and Therapeutic Parenting. From the snapshot you've given I would think your son fits these to a T.

Have you had therapy for your trauma? You sound completely desensitised ( I am not saying this in a cruel way btw, concerned)

Your dad has a right to say what behaviour he will and won't tolerate in his house

This ^

BUT - your Dad's outburst is ALSO violent. It must have been terrifying for your DC's - they haven't had to witness your exDH's aggressive behaviour, but they have now seen this. How can your dad justify this?

I appreciate that he may be worried that your DS will treat you the way your Ex did (and as your dad, he loves and is protective of you), but there was no need for this sort of verbal and emotional violence.

I think you did the right thing - perhaps you can go back if your DF acce[ts that he shouldn't go off it like that (it would be good for your children to have a male role model), but violence OF ANY SORT, especially divorced from DS's behaviour (so much later in the day) is NOT the answer.

I agree with Shumpa.

“My parents (mainly my DF) are controlling and I had a difficult childhood. They were very loving but as children, we were always on shifting sands and my dad's temper had us tiptoeing around him and he did hit us and didn't supervise us that well. If I'm honest I do feel like they let me down re the sexual abuse when I was young and perhaps living with them again (I left home at 18) has brought unresolved things to the surface.”

Why ON EARTH are you still in regular contact with these people, let alone living with them?!

I think you need to work on undoing the effects of the abuse you endured as a child and from your STBXH. I don’t know if you’ve had much/any counselling but I suggest you get some (more). I also suggest you call the NAPAC helpline and read “Toxic Parents” by Susan Forward. And do the Freedom Programme before you consider a new relationship.

How long until your house is ready OP? Sounds like your children need somewhere safe and stable asap. Sorry but your family sound awful and it can't be doing the children any good at all to have moved from a home where their mother was being abused to a home with another controlling alpha male.
How are you going to broach this subject with exh? I'd have concerns with his reaction either to yourself or the children when he finds out the children know.
This could have massive implications going forward on how their father relates and reacts to them and to you.
You did the right thing leaving your parents home, I think you need to explain to your father how his reaction has enforced to your son that abusive behaviour is okay and potentially placed you and them in danger from their father. Maybe write your dad a letter but stay away at this time.
I'd maybe look at some family counselling for you and your children as well as some individual help for your son.

Sorry I don’t know why I wrote STBXH, I think he is XH now isn’t he.