To have immediately removed DS2 from my parents house and found an alternative place to live?

[Strawbroke]

Currently living with my parents as my house isn't ready. It has been hard going but okay up until today. Ongoing issues with my dad turning the wifi off at 8 or 9pm but we have adhered to his rules.So I don't dripfeed I'll give you the build up to us having to leave.

This morning DS2 (age 10) really kicked off as he was going to holiday club. He has huge anxiety generally but especially about transitions, so is difficult. He got dressed and undressed 3 times. Anger. Crying. In the kitchen getting breakfast he elbowed me. I immediately took his phone off him and told him he couldn't take it to holiday club. And put it away. Said he could have the phone back tonight if I got an apology. My mum witnessed this. I went to work. 3dcs went off to respective childcare. In the car DS2 was upset, said he was very sorry. We talked about anger and how unacceptable it was to elbow me and I said we would come up with a way to address him dealing with his emotions. I know my son and if you come on really strong (shouting, react in anger etc, he escalates as his anxiety means he can't regulate his emotions).

On our return after work/holiday club my dad was sat on his laptop. I got the DC's a snack,gave DS2 his phone to Snapchat his dad upstairs but ensured he wasn't going on it. My dad went upstairs and proceeded to scream in DS2's face that under his roof he doesn't hit women etc. I could hear DD (age 7) trying to frantically calm her Grandad down. I was about to go up, he came down and started shouting at me saying he wouldn't have DS2 hitting me under his roof. I calmly (but was upset by this point) tried to say I had dealt with his behaviour and it wasn't his place at which point he said I don't follow things that though as I had returned DS2 his phone. At that point I told the children to put in their shoes as I wanted to leave and calm the situation. This is when it got to crisis point. My dad started shouting that he wasn't happy that the DC's go to their dads. The DC's dad is a very violent man. One day it will bite me in the arse and he will be violent towards the DC's. At this point only DS2 was in the house, the other DC's were heading to the car. DS2 heard everything. The DCs do not know I left exH due to violence (he broke my ribs and jaw). I have protected them for 4 years fronthus as they are children and I have assessed the risk to the DC's (I'm a social worker) and he gad never harmed them at all. I want my DC's to have a relationship with their father. What he did to me was separate to that.

I am FURIOUS with my dad. DS2 is so quiet. I have found somewhere else to stay. AIBU to feel like my dad had no right whatsoever to say this in front of DS2? After all the drama I'm wobbling now I've calmed down. My parents will paint this as my fault. I'm just trying establish if they are right? Thanks. Sorry it's so long. Feel a mess!

I did discipline him and he had a consequence.

That’s questionable. Taking his phone for less than a day and having a chat. He is 10yo not 2yo. Not long before he can do some real damage and elbowing mum when he loses it turns into punching a girlfriend.

As I said before anything that mum says really has very little impact. It’s men that need to get it through to boys and other men that this shit doesn’t fly and won’t be tolerated. Pretty much the yardstick needed is anything you do to a woman (be it verbal or physical) is something that you have to be comfortable doing to a man who is 6”2, fit and doesn’t take shit. If there is a voice in your head telling you you are not comfortable doing it in that situation then you don’t do it to a woman. Simples. This is where men need to step up and make this clear to boys and other men be it their son, grandson, nephew, best mate, father, neighbour, kid down the road etc. Sometimes that’s a rough lesson to be learnt but it’s a necessary lesson.

Great yardstick HoppingPavlova. One I'll use with my DS.

I’m really uncomfortable with the idea that a male relative yelling at a 10yo boy for violence will help that boy to learn not to behave aggressively.

OP, hope you’re able to move into your home soon.

claire you clearly have ZERO understanding of childhood trauma, anxiety and abuse. None. I hope to god you don't come across vulnerable children in your life and be expected to deal with them because your black and white approaches would not and do not work with children,like my son, who have had awful things happen around them. I really hope you aren't a parent. You think hiding behind a screen and being harsh is warranted? You just come across as a pretty horrific human being. I'm very glad I'm not like you tbh. You need to radically alter how much of a nasty piece of work you are.

Hopping I can see where you are coming from with this and do understand what you are saying about men leading the narrative about violence against women, however in this case my dad demonstrating that he can be aggressive towards DS and me and undermine me, his mother, serves no purpose whatsoever but to confirm that it's okay to be abusive. It felt like he brought up the violence as a stick to beat ME with, as another thing to use to bollock me whilst also getting a dig in at DS. I haven't heard a thing from them and I won't as they will one hundred per cent believe it was warranted. If my dad can use MY experience of domestic abuse against me, to humiliate and berate me and my children, he doesn't have our best interests at heart unfortunately. Yes I was stupid to marry a very abusive man and have children with him but nobody knows my life and the decisions I made. Walk in my shoes and then pour on the scorn and utter nastiness.

My DD1 (9) is adopted and suffers from Attachment Disorder and she's going to be assessed for other things like ASD/Autism. Like your DS2, she gets very anxious, in her case at any changes to her schedule. We're on holiday right now and she's found it very hard to be away from home, whereas DD2 (6) has been having the time of her life.

Also like your DS2, she struggles to regulate her emotions. She can get so angry, and can lash out violently. She will throw anything that's to hand, trash the house and has hurt DD2 and me lots of times. She's stamped on my foot, leaving a massive bruise, tried to hit me with a rounders bat, and hit and kicked me. She's done similar things to DD2, once leading her to say on one occasion that she wanted to go back to her foster carers.

Like your DD, DD2 tries to help sometimes, though she's mostly learnt to stay out of the way.

We've tried all manner of consequences with her, including docking her pocket money, banning her from using the iPad for a time and taking toys off her for a period of time.

But we have had advice from Post Adoption Support, and what we've learnt is that reassurance rather than consequences is what is required when traumatised children lash out. You're supposed to cuddle them and help them to regulate their big feelings. It's counter intuitive, and not practical when I'm on my own with our DDs as I have to comfort DD2 first if she's the one who's been hurt. But I always go to DD1 afterwards and talk through what happened.

I feel for you, OP. Your dad shouldn't have shouted like that. Especially since your DS2 has witnessed too much violence in his life already.

claire you clearly have ZERO understanding of childhood trauma, anxiety and abuse. None. I hope to god you don't come across vulnerable children in your life and be expected to deal with them because your black and white approaches would not and do not work with children,like my son, who have had awful things happen around them. I really hope you aren't a parent.

rubbish, I am hugely qualified,experienced and successful both professionally and in my private life.

What your dad really needs to do is be a positive male role model for your DS and shouting in his face is hardly doing that. I'm also not surprised that your DD screamed at her Grandad to calm down, that must have been very triggering for her.

clairetree obviously has issues around children acting out as she decided that an 11yo on another thread was an abuser and a bully rather than just a child being a prat. Just ignore her.
OP, your dad isn't much better than your ex (if at all given that your ex doesn't sound like he's abused the kids). Not sure if walking out was the best bet short-term but long-term your DC need to be in a calm environment which they wouldn't get with your dad. Teaching DS better ways of coping with stress and stress-related anger is far better than shouting in his face so you're doing the right thing.

I have no issues with children, I have just seen the consequences of failing to parent. I have issues with that!

Claretree is another one of those posters who really should be taken with several bags of salt, just like Pearls. Just don't engage.

FWIW I have been on a parenting course for parents wanting to support their DC though difficult separations. Two women there had abusive exes. Neither had a choice about their exes seeing their DC - the courts, social services and police had made their decision. So stop blaming OP for allowing contact with the DC, she has no choice. None.

And everything I learned on the course, which made perfect sense, is that children with SEN, children who have experienced abuse - they need different parenting strategies. What OP did re her DS and the phone was completely rational, sensible and appropriate. What her DF did was abusive.

OP, I hope you get into your new house soon and can put this behind you.

rubbish, I am hugely qualified,experienced and successful both professionally and in my private life.

In your head maybe 😂

Gawn, Claire, list your creds.

Ffs op took the phone first thing in morning. The boy did not have his phone all day.
He apologised and talked with his mum.
He got his phone back as promised to talk to.his dad.

What part of that is op 'giving him his phone without consequences?

Btw one of my kids has a similar problem with emotions (was assessed for adhd but thanks to school being 'generous' he didnt score quite enough in the test) and yelling at him doesn't do a bit of good. He gets consequences and He will come and apologise and be distraught about his behaviour but its an on going problem. Its tough op dont let all the know it all's get you down. They don't have to live it.

His house. His rules. You didn’t like it, so you left. Sounds correct.

Agree entirely pointy.
Some people really need to remove their holier than thou superior pants. We’re all parents just trying to do our best. Your situation is shittier than most right now, OP. You’ve done nothing wrong at all. Please take care of yourself. You and your kids need some tlc. xx

Jim
Doesnt matter whose house it is it doesnt give you the freaking right to scream in a child's face and scare your grand children and scream at your daughter in front of the kids.

The situation had been dealt with he didnt need to go all guns blazing at a child at all.

Well my dd wasn't traumatised and I still had to act counterintuitively with her at times. It is only worth applying punishments if you get the desired result.

You sound like a lovely mother and the most important thing for your children is that they know you have their back.

This is very very concerning. Where on earth has your 7 year old daughter learnt that her brother cannot be reprimanded for violence?

What nonsense!

She was upset at her adult gf screaming in her brothers face just as any child would be. Talk about making it up as you go along ffs!

All I have from this thread is Alarm Bells - you can't really be an effective SW with all this chaos going on. And all this deep-thinking about yourself and your own situation.

Do you think that any of your Clients could just go - the immediate solution to my problem is to move? Great that you could do that within hours of your 'situation' - with 4 kids as well? Bloody miraculous to most.

Irrespective of your situation - how can you possibly help others that need the same help as you but don't have the magnitude of choices that you have immediate access to?

Maybe op does just what the rest of us do, seperate work.and home life?
What she does in her situation has no bearing on any of her client lives.
She had the caravan but didnt use it now she is whats the big deal? She only has 2 weeks till she gets her new house. Living with her patents was not a long term solutuon in the first place just a stop gap. She diesnt have a 'magnitude of choices' she hoped her parents would be suooortive for a coupke of weeks till she got the house. Hardly unreasonable nor so far of the entitled scale as to affect her view of her clients. The fact she can go has nothing to do with anyone else nor how she will advise or support her clients.

You dont know anyone elses personal circumstances at home, when you see them at work or anywhere else unless they tell you. Doesnt mean they dont do a good job whatever that is.

'All this chaos ' is one day. And it wasnt caused by op. She is out of that situation so therefor no more 'chaos'. Many of us have kids with problems but we get on with it and do our jobs. Dont be so patronising. None of my workmates know what problems i have sometimes, they dont need to. I keep personal stuff to myself.

OP the way that you’ve reacted both to your Dad and other posters like @Clairetree1 bothers me. You have attacked Claire very viciously but she did not attack you in the same way.

I do think you’ve got your priorities misaligned. Your Ex was the one who in your words broke your jaw and ribs and had your kids suffer horrible things around them. Yet you say that you ‘want the kids to have a relationship with their Dad’ and broke your only punishment to your son in order that he could Snapchat his violent father after using violence that very day.

I would have been very frustrated as your Dad. He should not have shouted though. But the bigger acts of violence that day were your sons.

Tiredperson So the way the OP reacted to her dad and posters bothers you but not the way the dad screamed in the face of his 10yo grandson and his daughter? Your minimising of what the dad did bothers me. I'm astounded at the blinkers you and other posters have on about the impact of his screaming on 2 kids, and a woman who was hit by her dad as a child and whose parents didn't protect her from sexual abuse.

@Clairetree1 You definitely are not qualified and successful in dealing with anyone who is vulnerable let alone a child suffering trauma and anxiety.
@HatelsNotGood. Utter rubbish, the country would stop running if all the professionals out there were made to stop working if they had some problems in their personal life.
Having an option to leave does not make you incapable of helping others who can't, it makes you more likely to understand the desperate need for them to have somewhere to leave to and the turmoil they are in making that decision.
I am grateful every day I had choices and finances, it wasn't easy and I suffer PTSD as a result of DV but it has made me far better at my job and far more aware of the insidious nature of DV and how conflicted and hopeless victims feel.
Reading other people referring to the 10 year old as violent I am wondering what the OP meant by elbowing. My interpretation was a stroppy throwing his arm out catching her in the body as if to elbow her out the way but it sounds like some people think he purposefully elbowed her as hard as he could to cause pain and injury. Neither excuse her dads reaction but would make a difference in the professional help needed for the child.

Your dad didn’t handle it well but you must understand he is likely to be upset about what you went through and your son being physical probably triggered him. If you are living with them I guess they have been a form of support. Talk it through with them.

I think you’re doing amazingly well and handled the situation in a really good way. You’ve been through more than most ever will in a whole life time. I just have a lot of respect really.

FWIW I’m a counsellor, I work in a primary school so I know about trauma and anxiety.

But I’ll talk from my POV because my DS (11) is anxious and I’ll interpret his sometimes bad behaviour as ‘I know him’, I know what this is really about. He’s feeling shit inside and taking it out on me (not physically) but I know he doesn’t mean it, I know he’s actually a really nice boy......... I feel like I get where you’re coming from completely and I don’t follow through enough if I’m honest and I know you wasn’t looking for advice on the punishment but I do think he shouldn’t have had his phone back. He’s gone through a lot and he still is but knowing his behaviour has consequences will probably make him feel safer and better. Kids love rules and boundaries really!

I really hope you have someone there who is supporting you and making you feel safe op. Doesn’t sound like mum and dad have taken that role on 😢. I have a lot of admiration for you (hope I’m not patronising). Good luck with the move and everything 😘