To have immediately removed DS2 from my parents house and found an alternative place to live?

[Strawbroke]

Currently living with my parents as my house isn't ready. It has been hard going but okay up until today. Ongoing issues with my dad turning the wifi off at 8 or 9pm but we have adhered to his rules.So I don't dripfeed I'll give you the build up to us having to leave.

This morning DS2 (age 10) really kicked off as he was going to holiday club. He has huge anxiety generally but especially about transitions, so is difficult. He got dressed and undressed 3 times. Anger. Crying. In the kitchen getting breakfast he elbowed me. I immediately took his phone off him and told him he couldn't take it to holiday club. And put it away. Said he could have the phone back tonight if I got an apology. My mum witnessed this. I went to work. 3dcs went off to respective childcare. In the car DS2 was upset, said he was very sorry. We talked about anger and how unacceptable it was to elbow me and I said we would come up with a way to address him dealing with his emotions. I know my son and if you come on really strong (shouting, react in anger etc, he escalates as his anxiety means he can't regulate his emotions).

On our return after work/holiday club my dad was sat on his laptop. I got the DC's a snack,gave DS2 his phone to Snapchat his dad upstairs but ensured he wasn't going on it. My dad went upstairs and proceeded to scream in DS2's face that under his roof he doesn't hit women etc. I could hear DD (age 7) trying to frantically calm her Grandad down. I was about to go up, he came down and started shouting at me saying he wouldn't have DS2 hitting me under his roof. I calmly (but was upset by this point) tried to say I had dealt with his behaviour and it wasn't his place at which point he said I don't follow things that though as I had returned DS2 his phone. At that point I told the children to put in their shoes as I wanted to leave and calm the situation. This is when it got to crisis point. My dad started shouting that he wasn't happy that the DC's go to their dads. The DC's dad is a very violent man. One day it will bite me in the arse and he will be violent towards the DC's. At this point only DS2 was in the house, the other DC's were heading to the car. DS2 heard everything. The DCs do not know I left exH due to violence (he broke my ribs and jaw). I have protected them for 4 years fronthus as they are children and I have assessed the risk to the DC's (I'm a social worker) and he gad never harmed them at all. I want my DC's to have a relationship with their father. What he did to me was separate to that.

I am FURIOUS with my dad. DS2 is so quiet. I have found somewhere else to stay. AIBU to feel like my dad had no right whatsoever to say this in front of DS2? After all the drama I'm wobbling now I've calmed down. My parents will paint this as my fault. I'm just trying establish if they are right? Thanks. Sorry it's so long. Feel a mess!

My first thought was that your dad has been torn apart over knowing what your ex did to you and when your ds acted in an aggressive manner he wanted to stamp on it straight away. I think his reaction was the result of pent up anger over what you had to endure. Don’t leave they care about you.

Could your Dad have exploded from biting his tongue for so long? I'd be worried sick if my grandchildren spent time with a parent who'd been violent to the other. I'd be very concerned that your son was heading towards being like your ex too. Are you really able to assess the safety of your kids? I suspect that you are far too close to the situation to assess things. In your professional career, how often do violent parents get access to the kids? I thought that kids were supposed to be protected.

Your son ELBOWED you at age 10- how would your ex respond to be elbowed? How would he react when his son is the same size as him and angry? Teens get defiant and unreasonable about shit sometimes. I have a 17 year old teen who has severe anxiety and gets unbelievably angry but it's never got close to violence like elbowing. Are you getting him professional help for his anxiety?

I think that you know best how to resolve conflict with your son but if your parents are normally good people, then this has come from a place of fear that history will repeat itself. My son is half a foot taller than me and much stronger.

The DC's aren't my property, they have their own rights. I can't stop them seeing their dad. He was assessed by CSC and the MARAC as having capacity to be able to have unsupervised care and not a risk to his DC's, and as individuals they have a right to a relationship with their father. That is how statutory agencies view it. I could have gone to court but I had another court case ongoing at the time (re the historical abuse) and it was all too much. The DC's were told 'We had to move out because Daddy was being unkind to mummy and it wasn't safe for me to live there.' They asked me questions like 'Is it because he wouldn't let you have money?' and 'Is it because you argued and shouted'. DS1 asked me alone if he'd hot me and I said he had but he was 9 & understood. The others, as I said, were 3 & 6 and I couldn't say it. The services involved spoke to them about kind touch/bad touch etc. Perhaps I should have been more direct and said he was physical but I didn't. Like I sat, there as a lot going in. I was a mess.

Things aren't as black and white as 'he's violent, you shouldn't let him see them'. It's really unhelpful for someone who is already carrying a lot of guilt and worry about it to be told by people who don't actually have any knowledge of what I've done. My AIBU wasn't about my approach to DS2's violence, or the contact they have with their dad or my DS having a phone. It was to check that my instincts to remove the DC's from that situation was reasonable. I shouldn't need to check but I'm human and falliable. It was late on Friday night and I wanted support to be confident in my own decision. I'm not confident because like I've recounted, my life has been mired in abuse and even though I've had lots of counselling, support, treatment etc sometimes I wobble.

In regards to why I moved in, it has been 2 weeks since I went to my parents, I moved to private rented after the abuse. I expected to be with them for a very short period of time but there was a hold up with buying me new house.

Some of the comments on here have been really helpful, some have been really difficult to hear and made out in complicit and deserving of abuse.

You only want confirmation by the sound of things op.
my question is what will you do now re your relationship with your parents? Has that broken down?

*i'm complicit and deserving of abuse

In the cold light of day and now I'm calm my Dad was abusive yesterday, to me and my DS. Yes, it came from fear and frustration but he's directing the fear and frustration at two people who are struggling.

DS2 is sat watching something on behaviours and negative thoughts at the moment so it seems it's had an impact. I know my child and I know that screaming, shouting and hitting him in response to poor behaviour is not the way to go. I'm not going to keep the cycle of abuse going.

I'm going to leave the thread. There have been some very kind people on this thread. Thank you

Did you miss the part where her parents are abusive too? Hitting neglectful controlling...verbally abusive? Why so much concern for the relationship with them with hem its OP that needs support?

Reading so many of the lasts posts, did people miss the update?

My parents (mainly my DF) are controlling and I had a difficult childhood. They were very loving but as children, we were always on shifting sands and my dad's temper had us tiptoeing around him and he did hit us and didn't supervise us that well. If I'm honest I do feel like they let me down re the sexual abuse when I was young and perhaps living with them again (I left home at 18) has brought unresolved things to the surface.

To all the people saying they would never allow a violent parent access to their children and not believing the OP has had advice on this. Currently a parents violence to another parent is alnost regarded as irrelevant to child contact these days by the authorities and courts providing it has not been directly in front of the children and they are not deemed to be in danger of similar violence.
It is entirely believable a multi agency review would deem it in the childs interests to have time with their father and she would have to have had involvement in these meetings for them to understand the risks presented to the children.

Op dealt with her son in a good way. Her dad had no right to go screaming at gim and frightening him and the other children hours adter the event then turning on op.

They are also controlling and all this talk of 'protecting her' and caring what bollocks. Her dad jit her and abused her verbally as a child amd they both ignored her being sezuslly abised. Hardly model parents.

The contact with her ex has been sorted with other ptofessionsl input and kids are happy. What more can she do?

She is right to.leave it seems he4 dad still feels like he has a right to terrify and bully her and her kids. She needs space to be with them without that.

Blaming a child with obvious emotional issues for looking like his dad is appalling. Poor kid.

Well done op.you have been constantly let down by the people who should have cared for you and you are doing a great job. Take care of you and them without interference from your parents from now on.

Has you ds got pastoral care at school? Thats worth looking into for when he returns.

You don't deserve abuse from any of them
Try the Freedom programme too.

I am training to be a social worker (final year) and I was in an abusive relationship too, though it was more verbal than physical. I still allow ex to see our DD as he never directed any of his anger towards her.

You are your father child, he had to witness the pain you went through with your ex. I am sure when he confronted your son, it was an complete emotional act out of protectiveness for you.

You did the right thing moving out and talking to your dad that you felt he was unreasonable but I would not let the relationship with your parents suffer over this incident.

And yes you were right to remove them from both your parents and husband. You are very strong to be able to stand up and protect them from both

Serriously? RTFT!

tbh it does sound to me like your father's reaction was more appropriate than yours.

He may have over reacted, but you didn't seem to react at all, beyond making excuses for inexcusable behaviour from your son, and why you couldn't actually discipline him appropriately

wonder why you felt you would be happy in your parents house op.

I think your Dad was totally out of order. Offering hugs. I hope you sort everything out x

Oops, did not read the whole thread. Did not realise OP parents were abusive too. Ignore my previous advice or Mod can delete it.

I agree with your dad, the children should not be seeing their dad without supervision. To say that they had no idea about their dads violence towards you is very naive of you. Children know these things. They have eyes and ears and can sense trouble. Your sons behaviour to you is classic, boy knows dad hit mum, mum leaves dad, boy blames mum for split, boy and mum fight. As a social worker you should know this!
Your dad is probably overcompensating with your son as he is seeing you be very gentle with him, and he thinks he should be made to see that violence towards you is not acceptable. Any parent would do the same! The situation has now escalated as you've removed the children again. Where have you taken them? In essence, you have accepted your boys behaviour. Boy gets angry, hits parent, has phone removed, gets phone back to snapchat father, grandparent shouts at grandson, mum defends son against grandfather, son now thinks he's the winner!!

And put it away. Said he could have the phone back tonight if I got an apology. My mum witnessed this. I went to work. 3dcs went off to respective childcare. In the car DS2 was upset, said he was very sorry. We talked about anger and how unacceptable it was to elbow me and I said we would come up with a way to address him dealing with his emotions. I know my son and if you come on really strong (shouting, react in anger etc, he escalates as his anxiety means he can't regulate his emotions).

Which part of this did you miss Claire?

Scresming at a child hours after something has bern dealt with, scaring all your grandchildren then yelling at thier mother is not in any way an appropriate way to deal with anything.

In the kitchen getting breakfast he elbowed me.

Can't help wondering what that means. I've never been 'elbowed' by a child.

Oh FFS. It was a week or two interim measure between ending my tenancy and moving into the house I bought, but there was a hold up. I was stuck and my alternative was to move into a caravan with 3dcs, which I've now done and should have done in the first place.

claire I did discipline him and he had a consequence.

Boy gets angry, hits parent, has phone removed, gets phone back to snapchat father, grandparent shouts at grandson, mum defends son against grandfather

Screaming in his face and scaring his gd also is not helping in any way shape or form.
This is an abusuve man too or did you only read the first post?

dont get ratty with mn op

a caravan is a great stop gap, fun

Bez sorry that is a load of rubbish. DS does not think he has won. He's gutted as he just had that his dad hit his mum screamed at him.

I don’t think your dad is coming from a bad place, but I do think that he handled the situation very badly. Like others have said, through fear. I suspect that the part about him not wanting the DC to see their dad could be wrapped up in how he treated you in the relationship with the violence. he probably feels like it was in some way the reason why your son elbowed you,

But no, your fathers behaviour was not acceptable. He can’t be screaming at your children. He scared DD too and in your shoes I would do as you have but please try to reconcile with him if he can calm down enough to hear your side of the story.

I do want to ask something though, and it’s mord curiosity than anything, because I knew a family who had DV in their relationship, social services became involved and were unhappy for the dad to have contact for the reason of DV. How did you come to the conclusion your ex wasn’t a danger to your kids? I’m sorry, I’m not questioning for any other reason than I’m quite curious.