to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

I agree with you - but then I don’t drive, yet. I will have to soon though. Managed until 36 without a car.

That's nice, thank you, I didn't really expect any agreement x

I get the bus, because I don’t have a car.

Generally, people on buses are not the most hygienic or polite.

I’d definitely drive if it were an option (and there was free parking at my work).

I can’t get public transport to work and frankly I don’t want to. I pay a lot for my car and yes, it is for convenience and that is a priority for me.

Because if I went to work by public transport I would have to take a bus, a train, walk across town and get another bus. The whole process would take about five times as long.

Actually, I am being unfair. Generally people are ok but there is a significant portion of bus users that make around 85% of bus journeys unpleasant.. ime.

"perfectly adequate public transport exist"

Maybe in London. Definitely not something you can rely on outside of major cities, and forget about it if you live rurally.

I'm 39 and don't have a car. We are the only family I know with dc that doesn't have one. People actually think we never take the kids out! Not having a car is definitely limiting but so is not having the extra cash that a car would cost.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to?

But living somewhere where there are buses doesn't mean the buses go where you're going. You seem to assume all the cars could have done the same journey by bus, which may or may not be true. I spend a significant portion of my daily commute on a very congested stretch of road with lots of buses. But while the buses and I are going the same way at that point, we aren't ultimately - they go into the centre of the town I live in, I take a different turning and drive 40 miles to another town, which takes me 50 minutes in the car, but by public transport would take a train then two buses for a total of 2.5 hours travel time.

I agree with you.

I have no choice but to use a car as I live extremely rurally (its a 4 mile drive to the nearest village and from where there are 3 buses a day but not on Sundays)

But, when I've lived in cities and towns with decent public transport and proper bus lanes it's often easier to get around via public transport than by car and no need to pay for parking etc in tiny cramped car parks.

Sadly there seems to be little incentive for governments to promote public transport use (they would lose huge amounts of income from vehicle tax and fuel tax I would imagine) or invest in proper infrastructure. Until that happens most people aren't going to take a risk and rely on unreliable and fragile public networks run by profiteering private companies.

I agree that the right to drive a car is so deeply ingrained that most people don't question it. In my area I think there's definitely a class element to it where people perceive public transport to be a bit beneath them. I often take the bus to work and there are 2 people at my work who live in my area but would never even think to take it. Admittedly the public transport isn't great but it's perfectly fine to get from A to B. People would say it's because they need to make stops or pick kids up from school, which is true for some but not all. I think people value their convenience above all and the ability to come and go exactly at the time they want even if everybody doing this results in the traffic they moan so much about

I do a lot of running round for disabled family members as well as taking them to appointments (also for myself and my family) so sorry but there's no way I'm waiting for a bus especially if it involves more than one bus on any one journey and walking. I need to be able to get around quick before I pick dc up from school or just to have some time for myself when I finally get home.

Public transport takes me much longer to get there.

Osirus

I agree with you - but then I don’t drive, yet. I will have to soon though. Managed until 36 without a car.
once you start driving you will realise how you haven’t

I have a friend who reckons she dosent need to drive because she lives in a town
Yet it restricts what she can do

Asked her to come strawberry picking Ashe is unable why because you will need a car to get to the farm or would have to take a cab

She also childminds and basically is house bound during the summer

And we have just come back from holiday and drove and camped it would cost up nearly and extra 600 on top to hire a car if we didn’t already have one and if you banned cars what would happen to people like me and husband who have requirement to drive for their job I live in market town but work in a village just in the outskirts you cannot get here if you don’t drive

I left my car home last weekend and caught bus to town. It cost me £7.20! A full days parking is £2.40. I couldn't buy as much as I needed and had to make sure I was on time for bus. It's just more convenient to take the car.

I pay a lot for my car and yes, it is for convenience and that is a priority for me.

but are you genuinely ok with the thousands of deaths per year caused by pollution from traffic? Do you ever consider your own part in that? pollution from traffic could be cut by over three quarters when cars are banned. Does your own convenience give you the right to contribute to the deaths of others just because you can afford it?

Do you have children? how would you feel if one of them died of pollution -related asthma, and you had contributed to that pollution by car driving? Is it ok for you to be contributing to the pollution that is killing other peoples children and relatives?

You say both that you "can't" use public transport, and that you are only using your car for convenience, so I suspect you could really use public transport.

I agree with you too in principal.

But you assume all those people were going to the same place as the bus. They may have bren traveling tjroughbthe vity centre on theirvway to Nottingham for work for example!

I think people drive short distances too much without thinking about the environmental impact.

I only drive long distances generally. I know I could get public transport, but it is mostly twice as long by train as I usually have to get a train to London and then out again. It is purely a timing thing. Although I don't particularly like public transport due to the crowding.

And yes, I agree public transport is horribly expensive but it's this vicious cycle where no one uses it because of the cost/unreliability therefore the private companies have no incentive to improve and thereby encourage more people to use the services.

Pickledcabbage

I agree that the right to drive a car is so deeply ingrained that most people don't question it. In my area I think there's definitely a class element to it where people perceive public transport to be a bit beneath them. I often take the bus to work and there are 2 people at my work who live in my area but would never even think to take it. Admittedly the public transport isn't great but it's perfectly fine to get from A to B. People would say it's because they need to make stops or pick kids up from school, which is true for some but not all. I think people value their convenience above all and the ability to come and go exactly at the time they want even if everybody doing this results in the traffic they moan so much about hmm

not driving restricts you in a way you never understand unless you drive and I actually think it should be mandatory for women with children to drive before I dove I was house bound for most of the day especially in the winter and had to wait for my husband to come home or be in a good mood to take me shopping I also would struggle to work considering what I do for a living

Multiple drop offs (so DC to childcare then on to work in a tight time frame)

Working somewhere off a bus route

Heavy equipment to transport

Disabilities (hidden or otherwise)

However I agree we all use cars too much. Cars should really be considered a luxury item - and most families could manage without one, if they needed to. Our school has a tiny catchment area (furthest people live probably 2 miles away, but most within 0.5 miles) but so many come in cars for the reasons above.

It becomes a vicious cycle, though - more people drive so less buses are needed so services are cut so more people drive...

clairetrees1 to be honest, pollution is not one of my main concerns, no.

And yes I do have kids.

How do you suggest I get home from work at 3am?

If I got the bus to work, it would take me 90 minutes and 2 buses. it takes 20 mins to drive because people running public transport don't consider that sometimes people don't just need to go from the suburbs to a city centre and back again.
I don't work in a city.

when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

Your lucky if the public transport near you is adequate!
even if it were adequate, driving a car is usually the quicker, easier and more pleasant option.
Many places don't even have adequate though. I live in outer London and still wouldn't say public transport is adequate.
Places are rarely actually on a bus route so you still have to negotiate either end.
Places are very rarely on a single route so you have to change during your journey (and often the next bus has to be caught from an entirely different place)
And don't even mention the trains (Southern - need I say more)
Until recently there wasn't even a published timetable - trains just appeared and disappeared randomly from the website in front of your eyes. The trains are late, and frequently cancelled. The ones that do run are ridiculously overcrowded. And are very expensive. None are integrated so if you need to change trains mid journey and yours is late, you miss your connection. And again, very few destinations are right next to a train station.

I am actually going by train later this morning. Have had the journey planned for several days. Except this morning some idiots have decided to trespass on the line so every train going through a major station is disrupted and/or cancelled.

Yes - I use my car if at all possible.

I don't drive but now thinking of learning as the bus services in my area have been cut and there are places I can't get to by bus. If you're paying for a car anyway then why pay to get the bus? Tickets cost more than petrol. A recent trip took me two hours there including a 15 min walk and nearly 3 for the return due to a bus being late. My friends took less than half an hour to drive there. Using the bus means you have to plan your day out around timetables and can't be spontaneous or flexible. If someone wants a quick word with me when I'm leaving work I'll be an hour later home. Buses sometimes don't even turn up.

There probably are some unnecessary car journeys but many of those cars might have been coming from or going to somewhere inaccessible by bus or with restrictive times of services.

I used to get the bus before I had my own car (I had a driving licence for years) fortunately I lived in an area with frequent reliable buses. When I moved out to a village I had to buy a car. There was only one bus an hour (that does go from outside my house) but sometimes the bus company would just not run one service, so none for two hours. I just couldn’t rely on that. When my car was out of action a couple of months ago I had to get the bus a few times. As I was on my mat leave I had my baby in a pushchair, with lots of shopping in the basket so not easy to fold down. Massive headache. I of course moved whenever a disabled user got on, but I was looked on as an inconvenience. Because of this, rather than getting out of the house everyday like I used to. I only went if I really had to. I began to feel a bit trapped inside the house with the baby. Not a good feeling. I felt so free when I got my car back, I could go wherever I wanted and easily with shopping and all the baby gear I needed. Reliable frequent buses I think are the key....also they are really expensive!